Hasbro won't back off from deauthorizing the OGL, and nor should they.

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
...from a business and investor perspective. From a moral standpoint? I think we all agree it's wrong what they are doing. From a legal standpoint? The jury is still out (no pun intended) and split, but the important thing is who has the money to fight them in court to find that out.

But what I've seen is a whole lot of emotional reactions to this. I've been one of them. As a 3PP, this impacts me directly. But I think if we set aside emotion and look at factual data, Hasbro has already won. There is no war. Sure, Paizo sold out, but that's not sustainable. Sure, it made the news, but so did the Magic the Gathering debacle, and that was forgotten about after a couple weeks. And Magic has a lot more revenue weight than D&D does.

So what are the facts?
  • Folks talking about this on social media do not represent the majority of gamers (never have, never will). The outrage ratio on social media is not matched by the outrage ratio of gamers in general.
  • The most recent revenue reporting we have is from 3rd quarter. In that report, for 3qtr, Hasbro has revenue of $1.676 Billion. Out of that WotC accounted for roughly $300 million.
  • We have heard WotC brass say their goal was to get D&D to $150 million per year. That means it isn't there yet. But for sake of argument let's assume it is. That's roughly $37.5 million per quarter. That's what? 2.2% of total Hasbro revenue?
  • The biggest losses in Hasbro are in the Entertainment division (-34%)

What does that mean?
Let's say for sake of argument that this OGL mess causes a 10% drop in D&D sales (I very much doubt it will be anywhere close to that. FLGS owners I've talked to all say D&D is still selling as normal, even if the new people in charge of distribution are jacking things up). But let's say it's 10%. That's a $3.7 million loss per quarter. Or 0.2%. That's not even going to make the radar to investors. I've seen a lot of folks say the OGL is driving the Hasbro stock down. No it's not. Not even close. Firstly, there's no correlation between the OGL and the stock of Hasbro on a daily basis going back two months. Secondly, it's 0.2% or less. Thirdly, by looking at the revenue reports, we can see what it is. It's those other divisions that are taking bigger hits.

The OGL debacle won't significantly impact Hasbro's value and they know it. That's why they aren't backing down on that part. The costs to get control of their IP is insignificant to the overall value of the company.

What can we do about it?
I can't fight Hasbro in court, and and I don't want to because I don't trust them. We can move away from the OGL completely. Or we can adopt the new version. Those are our realistic choices, and the sooner we accept it, the better. It sucks. It's not fair. But business isn't fair. It's inherently corrupt that rewards the lawful evil among us (to use a D&D term). This mess will die down as we move to something else to be outraged about, and we'll be in the same boat.

I hope I'm wrong. But looking at the actual facts (financials), and I don't see the incentive for Hasbro to back off completely and keep the old OGL unless a judge forces them to. All of the 3PP who used the OGL combined is just a few million.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
but the important thing is who has the money to fight them in court to find that out.
Paizo.

Honestly, quite a lot of publishers. It would be expensive and painful (except for Paizo for whom the cost would be a budget item), but there are plenty who would weather that and survive. Nobody wants to, but if forced to, there are those who could.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Paizo.

Honestly, quite a lot of publishers. It would be expensive and painful (except for Paizo for whom the cost would be a budget item), but there are plenty who would weather that and survive. Nobody wants to, but if forced to, there are those who could.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see someone fight them in court and have a judge tell them they can't revoke the OGL. But looking at the numbers, I don't see the incentive for Hasbro to do that on their own, even under threat of being sued. This OGL mess is just not that significant in terms of revenue or potential lost revenue for them.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see someone fight them in court and have a judge tell them they can't revoke the OGL. But looking at the numbers, I don't see the incentive for Hasbro to do that on their own, even under threat of being sued. This OGL mess is just not that significant in terms of revenue or potential lost revenue for them.
It's not about Hasbro getting sued (for what? for having an interpretation of a license we disagree with?) it's about being sued by Hasbro.
 

Iosue

Hero
I expect the final version of the new OGL is going to be awesome…for 3PP of print and PDF products. WotC will promise the moon to get the new OGL more or less accepted. Even the products under OGL 1.0 will somehow be grandfathered in.

VTTs, though, are screwed. All the above will happen only because all that WotC really cares about is getting VTTs off the old OGL.
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
I think one difference between MtG's fiasco being swept under the rug and D&D's being swept, is that the only people that cared about MtG's fiasco was MtG players. Players of other TCGs didn't really care, because it didn't really affect them. Hasbro's shenanigans with the OGL have rippled across the RPG hobby as a whole, because even game systems that don't use the OGL have their fanbase asking them whether or not they're affected. The effect is a lot more networked than the MtG stuff, which only affected MtG players, which means it's going to take a lot longer for the echoes to die down. And the sunk cost for moving away from D&D is a lot lower than moving away from MtG. Lots of D&D players play other systems, relatively few MtG players play other TCGs.
 

Paizo.

Honestly, quite a lot of publishers. It would be expensive and painful (except for Paizo for whom the cost would be a budget item), but there are plenty who would weather that and survive. Nobody wants to, but if forced to, there are those who could.
This is bigger than RPGs. Truly.

 



Jaeger

That someone better
Paizo.

Honestly, quite a lot of publishers. It would be expensive and painful (except for Paizo for whom the cost would be a budget item), but there are plenty who would weather that and survive. Nobody wants to, but if forced to, there are those who could.

It would still be very expensive and painful for Pazio as well.

Just slightly less so than it would be for others.

And wotc could drag things out in court for years...


It's not about Hasbro getting sued (for what? for having an interpretation of a license we disagree with?) it's about being sued by Hasbro.

Exactly. Pazio is going to do what is best for Pazio.

If removing trademarked terms and using ORC is enough to keep them from the gaze of Sauron, they will go no further.

They will only act defensively.

For all the community proclamations of solidarity; the reality is that it is every man for themselves out there.
 

I do not believe there is an action there. I wish there was. If it went to court it would be because Hasbro brought an action.
In theory, I think there are parties with grounds to sue them for anticipatory breach if and when this illegal "notice of deathorization" is supposed to take effect.

Prima facie, I also think that some parties might have other grounds to pursue legal action against them right now, for tortious interference, as an example.

However, there's very little to be gained by doing so. WotC could still back off. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
In theory, I think there are parties with grounds to sue them for anticipatory breach if and when this "notice of deathorization" is supposed to take effect. Prima facie, I also think that some parties might have other grounds to pursue legal action against them right now, for tortious interference, as an example.

However, there's very little to be gained by doing so. WotC could still back off. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.
As I said, I don’t believe so.
 



As I said, I don’t believe so.
In the sense that such an action has a lower likelihood of success than using the OGL 1.0a as a defense against claims of copyright infringement, I believe you're right. In the sense that there is no way to go on the offensive here at all, I believe you're wrong. It just doesn't seem very prudent.
 
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That said, this individual might be preparing to do something, judging by the contents of this supposed letter and some anonymous statements made to Gizmodo. I would try to reach out to them if you want to explore possible options, but I wouldn't expect any statements on the record.

 

Retreater

Legend
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Yeah, they can fight it in court. They might even win. But it will be a pyrrhic victory that will cost them substantially in certain groups.
While they may not care, many DMs will care. These are the people who buy the most product and run the games.
 



That said, this individual might be preparing to do something, judging by the contents of this supposed letter and some anonymous statements made to Gizmodo.
I'm sorry, this is three weeks old and it's a joke. The "demand" was for a more "definite statement from Wizards." :rolleyes:

I guess Wizards has delivered now and are safe, at the moment, from further legal action.
 

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