have 3rd parties gotten the srd yet?

[grimslade]

It is not so much the purchasing of 3rd party books, it is the row upon row of "4E compatible" on the cover from trusted publishers. The huge amount of 3E titles in FLGS and online reinforced the perception of D&D being the dominant RPG system. It also showcased its flexibility. 4E would gain a similar benefit from having a bunch of tested publishers creating material for a nascent system.

 

[Henry]

Yeah, you raise a good point: who knows?! How many DM's collect books, and how many will hesitate?! Although we don't know, I suspect it will be more than a few hundred DMs. If the poll numbers are any hint (yeah right!), perhaps as many as 30% of DMs will hesitate. Each of those could take away 4-6 players with them, resulting in a big wave of delayed (or even no) purchases of 4E. Of course, the poll is likely not representative.

Also note that there are a vocal amount of online gamers, mostly DMs from my experiences, who are NOT swayed by 4E's changes. These online gamers are the ones more likely than anyone to buy a 3rd party product. So if online gamer sees that Mongoose, or Paizo, or Necromancer, has come up with some DAMNED AWESOME supplements for 4E, it may well drive them to give 4E a try, resulting in those 4-6 players coming along, too. Usually, in my experience, most groups go where the DMs go, not the other way around. There's a lot of trust in those groups built up between players and DM, and if the DM says, "this is fantastic!" then they're at least likely to give it a whack.

 

[GVDammerung]

With the date for release of the 4e SRD/OGL daily falling back AND with 3rd party publishers having hollowly set "drop dead dates," which when unmet saw the 3rd party publishers quiet down in their "demands," -

1) I wouldn't be surprised if select 3rd party publishers already have some sort of working draft of the 4e SRD/OGL which they are sworn not to mention but

2) If they don't have anything yet, they won't see anything until 4e hits the shelves and

3) That there is an _outside_ chance that, if no SRD/OGL is forthcoming by the date of 4e's release, there may be NO 4e SRD/OGL.

 

[Nikosandros]

Also note that there are a vocal amount of online gamers, mostly DMs from my experiences, who are NOT swayed by 4E's changes. These online gamers are the ones more likely than anyone to buy a 3rd party product. So if online gamer sees that Mongoose, or Paizo, or Necromancer, has come up with some DAMNED AWESOME supplements for 4E, it may well drive them to give 4E a try, resulting in those 4-6 players coming along, too. Usually, in my experience, most groups go where the DMs go, not the other way around. There's a lot of trust in those groups built up between players and DM, and if the DM says, "this is fantastic!" then they're at least likely to give it a whack.

This is also very true in my experience. I suggested to one my groups that we might try GURPS for a one shot and the system was liked and they all bought the basic set. Currently I'm running an AD&D weekly game with them... when I made the proposal they gladly accepted even though they didn't really have an experience with AD&D, just because they trusted me to run a cool game.

 

[catsclaw227]

With the date for release of the 4e SRD/OGL daily falling back AND with 3rd party publishers having hollowly set "drop dead dates," which when unmet saw the 3rd party publishers quiet down in their "demands," -

1) I wouldn't be surprised if select 3rd party publishers already have some sort of working draft of the 4e SRD/OGL which they are sworn not to mention but

2) If they don't have anything yet, they won't see anything until 4e hits the shelves and

3) That there is an _outside_ chance that, if no SRD/OGL is forthcoming by the date of 4e's release, there may be NO 4e SRD/OGL.

Or..

4) It has been stated that at least one freelancer (and likely more) already have the working draft of the rules for "playtesting" purposes, but the publishers don't officially have them. In this case, it's really moot and they effetively already have the rules and people working on products.

 

[kenmarable]

Or..

4) It has been stated that at least one freelancer (and likely more) already have the working draft of the rules for "playtesting" purposes, but the publishers don't officially have them. In this case, it's really moot and they effetively already have the rules and people working on products.

Or...

5) Several freelancers have the rules in order to work on WotC products and DDI. If their NDA/contract with WotC allows them, then they could use that to work on 4e products for other publishers. However, the publisers would have to work blind since they would not be allowed to view any of the work being done by the freelancers while they (the freelancers) are under NDA and the publishers are not*. Kinda a risky position to be in to have people writing for you and not being able to see hardly any of it, but the risk might be worth it for some companies. However, that doesn't address the problems for a company like Paizo that is trying to decide whether to go with 4e or not. They are still blind to both the rules as well as the license they will need to operate under.

That all being said, I agree that coming up with hypothetical situations is pretty moot since none of the rest of us outside of WotC, the freelancers, and the 3rd parties have any real information.


* If one of those freelancers leaks the rules to a 3rd party, you can bet in this very small industry, there's a good chance WotC would find out and that person would find probably find themselves permanently blacklisted at WotC. If it were me, I certainly wouldn't want to even risk that possibility. Plus, if I was a 3rd party company and had a freelancer break their WotC NDA, how do I know they won't break my NDAs as well?

 

[jester47]

Or...

5) Several freelancers have the rules in order to work on WotC products and DDI. If their NDA/contract with WotC allows them, then they could use that to work on 4e products for other publishers. However, the publisers would have to work blind since they would not be allowed to view any of the work being done by the freelancers while they (the freelancers) are under NDA and the publishers are not. Kinda a risky position to be in to have people writing for you and not being able to see a hardly any of it, but the risk might be worth it for some companies. However, that doesn't address the problems for a company like Paizo that is trying to decide whether to go with 4e or not. They are still blind to both the rules as well as the license they will need to operate under.

That all being said, I agree that coming up with hypothetical situations is pretty moot since none of the rest of us outside of WotC, the freelancers, and the 3rd parties have any real information.

This would actually work with some of the publishers that have very close relationships with their writers. Necromancer Games and Goodman Games generally seem to maintian very good and trustful relationships with their writers.

 

[catsclaw227]

This would actually work with some of the publishers that have very close relationships with their writers. Necromancer Games and Goodman Games generally seem to maintian very good and trustful relationships with their writers.

Right.

For example, if Ari Marmel had the rules, then I am sure he would be trusted to work on 4e adventures blindly by the 3rd party publishers. I don't think an NDA could be used to prevent the discussion of flavor or storyline stuff, so with the outline and general story hashed out, then Paizo or Necro could trust them to go dark for a few months to bang out a few adventures until the publishers get the nod from WOTC in a month or two (or three).

Either way, they can get 75-80% down the trail until the green light comes from WOTC. Yes, I know there's art and editing and layout and all that -- and it's a big deal -- but the key is letting the writer go silent with mechanics.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Right.

For example, if Ari Marmel had the rules, then I am sure he would be trusted to work on 4e adventures blindly by the 3rd party publishers.

I'd certainly give him something to work on blindly. There are not a lot of other freelancers that have Ari's rep though.

 

[catsclaw227]

I'd certainly give him something to work on blindly. There are not a lot of other freelancers that have Ari's rep though.

Agreed.

Erik Mona said that one of his freelancers has it already, and he has quite a stable of thoroughbreds as well.

Noteable, though, is how quiet it has been from the Undead Vermin in the 4e forums lately. :wink, wink: