Have you ever had a real experience you consider to be supernatural?

Since our understanding of reality is based on linear time and 3 dimensional space, how do you explain the fundamental initiation of existence from a state of non existence?

By definition whatever initiated existence as we understand it is beyond our current comprehension. Some say a god did it and that that god is beyond our comprehension (but he wants our money) but that is resorting to a supernatural explanation for existence.

So how do you explain existence in a rational scientific manner?
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Since our understanding of reality is based on linear time and 3 dimensional space, how do you explain the fundamental initiation of existence from a state of non existence?

By definition whatever initiated existence as we understand it is beyond our current comprehension. Some say a god did it and that that god is beyond our comprehension (but he wants our money) but that is resorting to a supernatural explanation for existence.

So how do you explain existence in a rational scientific manner?
I thought you specifically didn't want this debate?

The question isn't something I can parse; it's kinda word salad to me. But I supect that the answer is that my inability to explain something doesn't make it magic, it just makes it something I can't explain. I would consider myself very arrogant to suggest that everything I can't personally explain must therefore be magic. I can't explain quantum entanglement or nuclear fission, either, but I do not believe either to be supernatural.

Further to that, while I recognise that some poeple can explain those things, there is certainly a set of things which nobody as yet can explain. Which is why scientists still have jobs.
 

OK, I'm saying a supernatural experience as a term of convenience. Maybe I should say an experience that cannot be explained by any rational means except coincidences so unlikely as to be harder to accept than any other explanation.
 

It is an interesting topic. I think we will all have to be pretty careful if we want the thread to stay open as it is potentially going to get into contentious territory.

My background is a I was raised extremely religious, went through a period of agnosticism and a brief period of atheism in my very early 20s. But ultimately I returned to belief in God (for me it was a long process of reading philosophical arguments for and against, and having different experiences). Just my personal belief, not something I am interested in pushing on anyone else. I also found, despite moving towards agnosticism and atheism I still tended to do things like recite the Lords Prayer or the Rosary during things like heavy turbulence on a plane. Generally I am fairly skeptical of anything (not just supernatural claims but any, without evidence to support them), but I am always interested in other peoples experience and hearing what they believe about the world.

I have had a few experiences I can say felt supernatural to me. Whether they truly were or not, I can't say with any degree of certainty (I can definitely find plausible wordy explanations for them). At the same time, I am persuaded that two were at least genuine. The first experience was one I am quite convinced was a product of lack of sleep and medications I was given following a surgery. I saw the classic little green men dancing on my chest at night. Even as it was happening I was convinced it was a hallucination (though it came during a time where I did feel the walls between the afterlife were seeping into real life: after coming home from the hospital I had this dread that I had died and was in purgatory).

I've had two experiences though I feel were real and I would describe as religious experiences. And since those two events, I've continued to feel a presence at times. I don't think I can get into them without getting too deep into religious territory. For me, the experiences were profound and life altering.

Another experience isn't my own, but when my grandfather was dying he began talking to deceased relatives as though they were there. This was in maybe the last few weeks before he passed where it you could tell he was leaving. I honestly didn't know what to make of it. Part of me said it's just his mind being affected by the dying process and memories surfacing (he was also hallucinating bears at the time) but I also found the conversations very compelling and had a nagging 'maybe he really is talking the them' feeling.
 


Yeah, I've had that 'felt a presence ' thing a lot. A tensing of the scalp, the muscles along the side of the skull, a slight sense of almost like a pressure, indistinct but still palpable. A slight feeling between the shoulders. Is thst what you mean?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
OK, I'm saying a supernatural experience as a term of convenience. Maybe I should say an experience that cannot be explained by any rational means except coincidences so unlikely as to be harder to accept than any other explanation.
I reject the premise that there is such thing as a phenomenon which intrinsically cannot be explained, merely those which have not yet been explained. The fact that you or I cannnot explain it does not make it unexplainable.

I mean, you asked. You also said you didn't want to get into this debate, to which people said OK, but then you started it anyway.
 


Yeah, I've had that 'felt a presence ' thing a lot. A tensing of the scalp, the muscles along the side of the skull, a slight sense of almost like a pressure, indistinct but still palpable. A slight feeling between the shoulders. Is thst what you mean?

No. I mean the feeling of a benevolent spiritual presence
 

OK I asked if people had certain expeirncces, you and another user made it clear you hadn't. Ok.

It is a thorny topic. I think keeping it open to people with experiences, people without them, people who believe, people who don't, is the only real way to have a conversation about it on a forum. As long as people are being respectful to one another I don't see any issue with someone clearly stating they don't think supernatural events are possible or inexplicable, and vice versa. These kinds of claims get at fundamental beliefs about reality so I would expect someone to want to voice their opinion if a poster says they encountered the Ghost of Lizzie Borden and another poster believes ghosts don't exist.
 

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