You just missed the previous one then. 2e was one long collective yawn where I was. I managed to run 1 limited-series adventure, a short campaign, and one longer campaign over its entire duration and played in none -- as opposed to the multiple campaigns in a wide variety of other games systems I ran and played in.
D&D 5E Have you moved on yet? Has Wizard's handled this properly?
- Thread starter ForeverSlayer
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You just missed the previous one then. 2e was one long collective yawn where I was. I managed to run 1 limited-series adventure, a short campaign, and one longer campaign over its entire duration and played in none -- as opposed to the multiple campaigns in a wide variety of other games systems I ran and played in.
I certainly don't agree with this. I gave up almost entirely on D&D in the 3e years, but I've played and enjoyed 4e quite a lot. Although to be fair, it's not as if I've ever been someone who played just one RPG. I suspect people who play more than one game aren't likely to care how big the gap is between editions, rather judging each game independently on it's merits or lack thereof.
Since 1981 -- We were excited when UA came out in 1e, went to 2e right away, all picked up on 3 (and pictured 3.5 kind of like we did UA in 1e), and tried 4. And then backed up to a previous edition or PF.
For our group, I think the biggest displeasure with 4e was:
- Combat took a lot longer for us than in previous edition
- A lot of powers seemed board/video-gamey with the flavor text tacked on.
- The skill checks were described in a manner that seemed board/video-game
- The mythos/nature of many monsters/three-pillar balance were a fairly big break from 3e as far as existing campaigns
- No OGL
The first one is something that practice probably would have fixed. The second and third are more problems with the authors of the edition and probably wouldn't have bothered us if several of the 4e-ers here had written them up instead. So as players, I think we could have gotten used to it. I think as players we could get used to 5e.
As a GM though 4 and 5 mean I didn't want to sink my time into 4e... and if 5e has the same problem I won't want to sink my time into that either as a GM.
As @Dykstrav notes there's the issue of time, and if our GMs are happy with 1e and PF then we need someone else who wants to run it. And that leads to the issue of money. I can run PF without needing anyone to buy books unless they want to (thanks to the SRD). And most of us have the 1e books (could have used a clone for free if not). The first person to run PF has to either run the first few sessions with everyone sharing his copy of the book, or convince us to spend our money on it instead of something else. (It does seem wrong that the older I get the more the money is an issue!)
Hard to get excited if you can't see it being adopted by your group.
Pour
First Post
I fade in and out, honestly. I'm actually looking more closely now, but only because I'm late into my Epic 4e game and not quite onto my 13th Age game, so there's a gap. Besides enjoying reading and sometime chatting about game design anyway, I'm looking for stuff to lift and bring into my 13th Age game.
My groups have already expressed pretty much no interest in converting to the new edition, though I'll give it a whirl as a one shot. Frankly, I think most of them dislike 1e/2e (save one or two), hate 3e (save one or two), and enjoy 4e (save one or two), so talking about a modular edition with influences from all is largely a losing prospect. I think they're just tired of the D&D/PF kind of set-up and assumptions. We'll see if 13th Age scratches the itch. If not, it's comforting to know at least there's a massive selection of games out there.
Has Wizards handled this properly, though? Eh, there is something commanding about a finished product, or nearly finished product, that inspires confidence and authority whether or not you agree with every aspect. It's the edition and that's pretty much that. Seeing a game form from the ground up via playtests, but two phases behind what they're actively working on, and with different concerns addressed in different packets dilutes any enthusiasm I have. I can't say I'm excited with some of their intended decisions, either, like Forgotten Realms 5e coming out the gate, but that's my preference getting in the way.
My groups have already expressed pretty much no interest in converting to the new edition, though I'll give it a whirl as a one shot. Frankly, I think most of them dislike 1e/2e (save one or two), hate 3e (save one or two), and enjoy 4e (save one or two), so talking about a modular edition with influences from all is largely a losing prospect. I think they're just tired of the D&D/PF kind of set-up and assumptions. We'll see if 13th Age scratches the itch. If not, it's comforting to know at least there's a massive selection of games out there.
Has Wizards handled this properly, though? Eh, there is something commanding about a finished product, or nearly finished product, that inspires confidence and authority whether or not you agree with every aspect. It's the edition and that's pretty much that. Seeing a game form from the ground up via playtests, but two phases behind what they're actively working on, and with different concerns addressed in different packets dilutes any enthusiasm I have. I can't say I'm excited with some of their intended decisions, either, like Forgotten Realms 5e coming out the gate, but that's my preference getting in the way.
n00bdragon
First Post
The problem is thusly: Like it or not 5e is competing directly with other RPGs, most notably Pathfinder but also things like the WH40K RPGs and to a much lesser extent things like GURPS and such. These RPGs are complete. They are continuously supported and have a large base of splatbooks, adventures, resources, clarifications, etc and so on. When you pick up one of those games you automatically get the benefit of all those things.
5e does not have that. Every three or four months a package of slightly altered PDFs is released and to fill the gap you get articles on the D&D website with what halfling artwork should look like.
The rules are not in a state that someone could realistically run an ongoing campaign. The first adventure published (and the only one available for nearly six months), Caves of Chaos, is so unbelievably substandard that it may have killed a lot of interest that could have otherwise been generated in the game. Worst of all, this is a game that only the internet knows about. If you are a dedicated enough RPG gamer to be on a website like this chances are you already play a LOT of RPGs. You are not an impressionable new generation of gamers. Those are the people you invite to your games of Pathfinder and Rogue Trader. Those are the people who wander into the local comic store and see racks of Pathfinder and Dark Heresy. It's unlikely that many of these new gamers even know what "D&DN" is, and at this point we already have at least two years worth of them who have never played something called "Dungeons & Dragons" at all.
5e does not have that. Every three or four months a package of slightly altered PDFs is released and to fill the gap you get articles on the D&D website with what halfling artwork should look like.
The rules are not in a state that someone could realistically run an ongoing campaign. The first adventure published (and the only one available for nearly six months), Caves of Chaos, is so unbelievably substandard that it may have killed a lot of interest that could have otherwise been generated in the game. Worst of all, this is a game that only the internet knows about. If you are a dedicated enough RPG gamer to be on a website like this chances are you already play a LOT of RPGs. You are not an impressionable new generation of gamers. Those are the people you invite to your games of Pathfinder and Rogue Trader. Those are the people who wander into the local comic store and see racks of Pathfinder and Dark Heresy. It's unlikely that many of these new gamers even know what "D&DN" is, and at this point we already have at least two years worth of them who have never played something called "Dungeons & Dragons" at all.
Kinak
First Post
My group is deep into Pathfinder at this point. My only problem with Pathfinder is its complexity.
So I was pretty excited by the first packet. It was way simpler than Pathfinder and ran very smoothly. There were some things I wasn't happy with, but my impression was very positive.
But packet after packet since then, each has made the game more complex and more front-loaded. A few of the things I wasn't happy with originally were fixed, but the majority are intentional or were just left to fester. So that's making it hard to get excited.
So now when I look at the playtest documents, I see a game every bit as complicated as Pathfinder. The only thing that excites me to do is create my own retroclone.
Cheers!
Kinak
So I was pretty excited by the first packet. It was way simpler than Pathfinder and ran very smoothly. There were some things I wasn't happy with, but my impression was very positive.
But packet after packet since then, each has made the game more complex and more front-loaded. A few of the things I wasn't happy with originally were fixed, but the majority are intentional or were just left to fester. So that's making it hard to get excited.
So now when I look at the playtest documents, I see a game every bit as complicated as Pathfinder. The only thing that excites me to do is create my own retroclone.
Cheers!
Kinak
I have only played sporadically for the past few years due to changes in my life and gamer friends moving. 4E was kind of a dissapointment to me. It showed a lot of potential, and then veered off the track. (I'm referring to the core 3 books, I never got any more than that). Obviously that is my opinion only, but it is one of the reasons I didn't spend the time and money to find a new group. I have about 1000 dollars worth of 3E and 3.5 books on my shelf, but I had really become burned out on some of the flaws in the system. Pathfinder didn't fix a lot of those for me. 5E has me really excited though. I'm liking a lot of the general design goals they've talked about. The fact that discussions on boards like this could influence playtest feedback and actually change the game is awesome. Though an open playtest has drawbacks, it also has opportunities that WOTC has never gotten to take advantage of before. I want to help make the most of this opportunity. I've started making it a point to play again, even if it is just me and one other person, to provide informed playtest responses. I wouldn't say it is at all outside of the realm of possibiliy that when 5E is released I may set out to find a new group.
So I just need to point out that 5e has not actually been released yet. I think it's hard to "move on" from a game that hasn't come out. You might say you've lost interest in playtesting it, but I think that's a different issue.
Similarly I don't think we'll know if WOTC did the right thing until they actually start selling the game. If it sells well, then yes they did. If it sell poorly, then no they didn't.
Similarly I don't think we'll know if WOTC did the right thing until they actually start selling the game. If it sells well, then yes they did. If it sell poorly, then no they didn't.
mcintma
First Post
I fade in and out as well. I want this to work, I like the intended spirit of D&DN as the designers describe it. But then a new Packet comes out and I get irate about nerfed rogues or nerfed wizards etc. Then I calm down and remember the rules are still in wild flux.
Bottom line, although PF somehow ended up with so much of TSR/WotC's IP (not talking rules here, just IP like drow and ankheg etc.), only WotC has the complete IP and so I want a strong D&D with good products coming out for FR etc. And yeah, Dragon and Dungeon back as true mags
Bottom line, although PF somehow ended up with so much of TSR/WotC's IP (not talking rules here, just IP like drow and ankheg etc.), only WotC has the complete IP and so I want a strong D&D with good products coming out for FR etc. And yeah, Dragon and Dungeon back as true mags
Obryn
Hero
You missed late 2e. Many, many D&D players left the game, myself included. I myself was incredibly involved in Earthdawn and ran several campaigns. I came back for 3e, but by the 4e announcement, I was already farming around for new games - WFRP2e and Star Wars Saga were favorites. I'm not disenchanted with 4e yet, so Next has an uphill battle, so to speak.
