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Hawkeye Trailer

MGibster

Legend
I’ve never quite understood the negativity toward Hawkeye in the MCU films.
I tend to prefer characters like Batman and Hawkeye when they're not on teams with the likes of Thor and Superman. Though some of those Justice League and Avengers stories are certainly good. I've always poked fun at Hawkeye in the movies but I'm looking forward to the series. I think the character will work better in his own element.

I think one of the strengths of the MCU is the widest variety of genres its trying to use, to ensure that it captures the widest audience. Trying out a "Christmas Comedy" seems a reasonable step to that.
That's something I've been impressed with as well. The Winter Soldier was a techno thriller, Guardians of the Galaxy is straight up science fiction, Ragnarok was almost a buddy comedy, and Wandavision is just really, really weird.
 

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Ryujin

Hero
I tend to prefer characters like Batman and Hawkeye when they're not on teams with the likes of Thor and Superman. Though some of those Justice League and Avengers stories are certainly good. I've always poked fun at Hawkeye in the movies but I'm looking forward to the series. I think the character will work better in his own element.

That's something I've been impressed with as well. The Winter Soldier was a techno thriller, Guardians of the Galaxy is straight up science fiction, Ragnarok was almost a buddy comedy, and Wandavision is just really, really weird.
I've tried to get into WandaVision, on the advice of friends whose opinions I respect, but it just doesn't seem to be my thing. Maybe it has something to do with having grown up with the sitcoms that its look and feel are based upon?
 

MGibster

Legend
I've tried to get into WandaVision, on the advice of friends whose opinions I respect, but it just doesn't seem to be my thing. Maybe it has something to do with having grown up with the sitcoms that its look and feel are based upon?
It's certainly an odd show and I can see why it wouldn't be your thing. The truth is that while I admire the effort to do something different, I don't see myself watching it ever again.
Wanda spent the better part of who knows how much time essentially torturing the residents Westview. She's the villain of the series, not Agatha.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
I've tried to get into WandaVision, on the advice of friends whose opinions I respect, but it just doesn't seem to be my thing. Maybe it has something to do with having grown up with the sitcoms that its look and feel are based upon?
I think WandaVision is better if you go into it with the mindset that it is a horror story. Sure, it has the trappings of those old sitcoms, but the tone is off. Deliberately and from the start.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Same. They put in Black Widow and Hawkeye as top tier unpowered agents, to give us an "everyman" who is baffled by what's going on around them. I think it works exceedingly well and liked both characters. Widow's, "Sure. It'll be fun" deadpan delivery in "The Avengers" and Hawkeye's "and I've got a bow" in "Age of Ultron" are perfect "what the hell" moments for the characters.
Hehe well the Everyman thing kind of went away on Black Widow, as she is effectively immune from gravity :)
 

Rune

Once A Fool
It's certainly an odd show and I can see why it wouldn't be your thing. The truth is that while I admire the effort to do something different, I don't see myself watching it ever again.
Wanda spent the better part of who knows how much time essentially torturing the residents Westview. She's the villain of the series, not Agatha.
The one does not preclude the other.

Wanda may indeed be a villain, but Agatha definitely is, also! Hayward is, too. Turns out, there’s room for three villains in the show.
 


Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
he was probably the least interesting avenger (movie wise) and will probably have a weak rogues gallery. Will this even be better than green arrow on tv. Yes it will have bigger explosion etc but will the character be interesting? in the movies he has barely any personality

Ive seen most of Renners movies and he basically plays the same type of character (not super likeable, cautious but has good action skills)

Moon Knight sounds way more interesting
bring back Daredevil with a Disney budget
theres a lot more characters with more interesting villians

Word is that the DD world might well be making a cameo in the Hawkeye series via D'Onofrio Kingpin which would be great to see being integrated into the proper MCU

As to the Arrow series, that was only passable because they entirely rip-off Batman
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
But Cap, Hulk, and Thor are all 616-continuity versions with little Ultimate influence (other than Hulk being the product of attempts to recreate the super-soldier formula rather than a gamma bomb).
Thank goodness, too. I'd have tuned out of the MCU with the first Cap movie if he'd been the Jingoist jerk from the Ultimates comics. Never made sense to me, either. He acts more like a guy from post war white middle America than 20's-30's Brooklyn.

To be Cap, he's gotta be the kind of person who saw people arguing for a fascist America as a problem, not the kind of guy who might have joined them, and only ended up hating the Nazi's because they were eventually America's wartime enemy, which is the sort of person he comes across as in the Ultimates.

Thor is an interesting depiction, but ultimately isn't especially likeable. It would have been fun for Loki to convince some people that Thor was just an insane metahuman and not actual Thor from the mythology, but that's about all I'd take from the Ultimates.

Ultimates Hulk is...um...problematic. In a gross way.

Especially for a film franchise meant to have broad appeal, Tony and shield characters are about all they could depict as really close to the Ultimates version.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Thank goodness, too. I'd have tuned out of the MCU with the first Cap movie if he'd been the Jingoist jerk from the Ultimates comics. Never made sense to me, either. He acts more like a guy from post war white middle America than 20's-30's Brooklyn.

To be Cap, he's gotta be the kind of person who saw people arguing for a fascist America as a problem, not the kind of guy who might have joined them, and only ended up hating the Nazi's because they were eventually America's wartime enemy, which is the sort of person he comes across as in the Ultimates.
Yes, and yet no. Ultimates Cap is the kind of Cap who would come right off the win in WWII - force solves things. Like veteran leaders of WWII, he would have learned that applications of destructive force work - keep in mind how the Pentagon behaved in Korea and Vietnam. "Just keep applying more force, it'll work eventually." And Mark Millar recognizes this. Ultimates Cap really is America in the 50s and 60s.
He is an unreconstructed man of the 1930s and 40s, he sticks up for women but in a paternalistic way, he fights criminality with his fists and punishes bad behavior with them as well (remember who his targets are in the Ultimates - Banner and Pym and what they do to deserve his wrath). He supports his government. He's not a fascist - just an anachronism who isn't the Cap of Earth 616 who experienced (or rather, his writers experienced) the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement, protests against the War in Vietnam, Watergate, massive government disillusionment, and so on. Cap of the main continuity is THAT guy and that's the stand-up guy we got in the MCU.
 
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Ryujin

Hero
I think WandaVision is better if you go into it with the mindset that it is a horror story. Sure, it has the trappings of those old sitcoms, but the tone is off. Deliberately and from the start.
Oh, I can definitely see what they're going for and have a pretty good idea what it all means, but it just doesn't grab me for some reason.
 


Ryujin

Hero
Yes, and yet no. Ultimates Cap is the kind of Cap who would come right off the win in WWII - force solves things. Like veteran leaders of WWII, he would have learned that applications of destructive force work - keep in mind how the Pentagon behaved in Korea and Vietnam. "Just keep applying more force, it'll work eventually." And Mark Millar recognizes this. Ultimates Cap really is America in the 50s and 60s.
He is an unreconstructed man of the 1930s and 40s, he sticks up for women but in a paternalistic way, he fights criminality with his fists and punishes bad behavior with them as well (remember who his targets are in the Ultimates - Banner and Pym and what they do to deserve his wrath). He supports his government. He's not a fascist - just an anachronism who isn't the Cap of Earth 616 who experienced (or rather, his writers experienced) the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement, protests against the War in Vietnam, Watergate, massive government disillusionment, and so on. Cap of the main continuity is the THAT guy and that's the stand-up guy we got in the MCU.
In other words the sort of "Real American" (tm) who wants the America of a Frank Capra movie and will both altruistically and hopefully work towards that goal. At least that's the character I always saw in him, rather than a "My country, right or wrong" sort (who conveniently forgot the rest of that quote).
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yes, and yet no. Ultimates Cap is the kind of Cap who would come right off the win in WWII - force solves things. Like veteran leaders of WWII, he would have learned that applications of destructive force work - keep in mind how the Pentagon behaved in Korea and Vietnam. "Just keep applying more force, it'll work eventually." And Mark Millar recognizes this. Ultimates Cap really is America in the 50s and 60s.
Which makes no sense, as I already said. He is also a specific type of guy from that era, which he was frozen during, and he never even saw the end of the war, so it's...just a weird way to go.
They made a version of Cap who the real Cap would...not like. At all. Like Ultimates Cap could be a Cap villain in the vein of many past Cap villains that were aligned with the US and thus the conflict was more complex than it is with enemies like Zemo.
He is an unreconstructed man of the 1930s and 40s, he sticks up for women but in a paternalistic way, he fights criminality with his fists and punishes bad behavior with them as well (remember who his targets are in the Ultimates - Banner and Pym and what they do to deserve his wrath). He supports his government. He's not a fascist - just an anachronism who isn't the Cap of Earth 616 who experienced (or rather, his writers experienced) the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement, protests against the War in Vietnam, Watergate, massive government disillusionment, and so on. Cap of the main continuity is the THAT guy and that's the stand-up guy we got in the MCU.
Cap of the main continuity is a guy from 1920's - 1930's New York, though. He grew up around a diverse America, in one of the bastions of LGBT culture in an era when LGBT folks had few of those, and a place that already had a large Jewish population, and where what the Nazis represented was recognized by many of those Jewish folks immediately.

And he was not written by people who experienced any of that stuff, he was created by Jewish men in 1941. They wrote a physically weak and small artist from New York who wanted to help, and later writers made him the kind of guy who felt he needed to ditch the title and go by a different name when he couldn't support his government during the Watergate scandal.

The Ultimates Cap is everything that cynical people who have never read Cap assume a character with the flag on his suit would be, which is just about the dead opposite of what the character actually is.
 


MarkB

Legend
Oh, I can definitely see what they're going for and have a pretty good idea what it all means, but it just doesn't grab me for some reason.
I did stall out in the first couple of episodes when I tried to re-watch it. If you're not in full "what the heck's going on here / hunting for every minor clue" mode, they're a bit of a chore to get through.
 

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