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Hawkeye Trailer

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
... it makes sense to draw from the Ultimates stuff, that was largely where I'd heard all of the chars took their inspiration.

So, there are bits of character inspiration and plot that come from Ultimates, but "largely"? No. The Ultimates are Millar's work - and Millar's basic approach to comics is that every character is actually a jackhole. Millar doesn't seem to believe you can have superpowers and be a fundamentally good person, I think.

I mean... Ultimates Hulk is a cannibal, and kidnaps women to be his concubines.
 

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billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Cap of the main continuity is a guy from 1920's - 1930's New York, though. He grew up around a diverse America, in one of the bastions of LGBT culture in an era when LGBT folks had few of those, and a place that already had a large Jewish population, and where what the Nazis represented was recognized by many of those Jewish folks immediately.

And he was not written by people who experienced any of that stuff, he was created by Jewish men in 1941. They wrote a physically weak and small artist from New York who wanted to help, and later writers made him the kind of guy who felt he needed to ditch the title and go by a different name when he couldn't support his government during the Watergate scandal.
Not created back in 1940, no. But as he was continuously written once reintroduced, oh yeah, he was definitely written by people who experienced or witnessed the events and movements I listed. It's through those stories, from 1964 and on, that we learn what kind of person Steve Rogers was - not the knuckle-dusting comics from the 40s. That's not to knock what Kirby, Simon, and Lee were doing back in the 40s. It's just that comics took some massive steps forward in telling stories in the decades after Captain America's debut, particularly with morally and socially relatable characters - Marvel's specialty at the time.
The Ultimates Cap is everything that cynical people who have never read Cap assume a character with the flag on his suit would be, which is just about the dead opposite of what the character actually is.
Most importantly, the main continuity Cap is a Cap that continued to evolve from writer to writer with the evolution of American society after Marvel reintroduced him in 1964. He's not the Cap of an America fresh from WWII and frozen for 70 years.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
So, there are bits of character inspiration and plot that come from Ultimates, but "largely"? No. The Ultimates are Millar's work - and Millar's basic approach to comics is that every character is actually a jackhole. Millar doesn't seem to believe you can have superpowers and be a fundamentally good person, I think.

I mean... Ultimates Hulk is a cannibal, and kidnaps women to be his concubines.
Ultimates Hulk is pretty nasty, but the idea that you can have superpowers and be a fundamentally good person - see Ultimates Thor. He's pretty upstanding, consistently. I think Millar's approach isn't that you can't have superpowers and be fundamentally good, rather that just because you have superpowers doesn't mean you don't still have flaws. I also don't think that he takes the approach that because you have flaws you don't also have some redeemable qualities.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Not created back in 1940, no. But as he was continuously written once reintroduced, oh yeah, he was definitely written by people who experienced or witnessed the events and movements I listed. It's through those stories, from 1964 and on, that we learn what kind of person Steve Rogers was - not the knuckle-dusting comics from the 40s. That's not to knock what Kirby, Simon, and Lee were doing back in the 40s. It's just that comics took some massive steps forward in telling stories in the decades after Captain America's debut, particularly with morally and socially relatable characters - Marvel's specialty at the time.

Most importantly, the main continuity Cap is a Cap that continued to evolve from writer to writer with the evolution of American society after Marvel reintroduced him in 1964. He's not the Cap of an America fresh from WWII and frozen for 70 years.
The core of who a person is doesn’t tend to change to the complete opposite. Ultimates Cap is a completely different character, about as much like the actual Cap as 1950’s Cap, or Super Patriot, from 616.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Ultimates Hulk is pretty nasty, but the idea that you can have superpowers and be a fundamentally good person - see Ultimates Thor. He's pretty upstanding, consistently.

Yeah, the one decent person... and from the start his sanity is in question.

I also don't think that he takes the approach that because you have flaws you don't also have some redeemable qualities.

Looks back at the description of Hulk...
Looks at the above sentence...
Sure, since he destroys things we want destroyed, I guess he has redeeming qualities. :(
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
So, there are bits of character inspiration and plot that come from Ultimates, but "largely"? No. The Ultimates are Millar's work - and Millar's basic approach to comics is that every character is actually a jackhole. Millar doesn't seem to believe you can have superpowers and be a fundamentally good person, I think.

I mean... Ultimates Hulk is a cannibal, and kidnaps women to be his concubines.
Glad I never read that.....or will likely see it.
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Yeah, the one decent person... and from the start his sanity is in question.
But then it turns out - he's right. So he's not insane, is he?
Looks back at the description of Hulk...
Looks at the above sentence...
Sure, since he destroys things we want destroyed, I guess he has redeeming qualities. :(
Not everyone has to have redeeming qualities, nor all the time. But even then, despite willingly turning into Hulk, Banner isn't completely irredeemable.
There are a lot of flawed people in the Ultimates, yet most of them are largely trying to do right more often than they do wrong. And they frequently succeed.
 


Stalker0

Legend
There is conclusive evidence to the contrary.
Which part:

the one where she walks away from a 5 story fall, which includes multiple back breaking hits, without a scratch.... or the part where she falls out of a flying fortress, manages to open a parachute for about 2 seconds before smashing in the ground, and walks away without a scratch ;)

Funny note, the parachute thing was so fast that me and all of my friends watching were super confused, we assumed she had landed on another piece of debris. Once we realized that it was actually earth she had just slammed into.....we lost it, so much laughter at how incredibly ridiculous it was.
 


AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
I already like pineapple on pizza. So I probably didn't have a soul to begin with.

But the trailer is alright. It makes even someone like me, who isn't interested in Hawkeye, mildly interested.
I like pineapple on pizza, too! Solidarity to all oppressed-types-of-pizza lovers!

Yeah. I personally am not a huge fan of Hawkeye, but this trailer makes the show seem like something I'd like (well, granted that I've liked all of the Disney+ Marvel shows so far, that was basically a given for me, but still).
 

MarkB

Legend
Which part:

the one where she walks away from a 5 story fall, which includes multiple back breaking hits, without a scratch.... or the part where she falls out of a flying fortress, manages to open a parachute for about 2 seconds before smashing in the ground, and walks away without a scratch ;)

Funny note, the parachute thing was so fast that me and all of my friends watching were super confused, we assumed she had landed on another piece of debris. Once we realized that it was actually earth she had just slammed into.....we lost it, so much laughter at how incredibly ridiculous it was.
This part.

blackwidow.jpg
 





Stalker0

Legend
There are no super heroes that are not super, regardless of their fictional lack of “powers”.
My friends and I developed a fun theory for the animated Batman series. In that version of multiverse, all humans are super durable compared to our version. It explains how people like Lois Lane can do the crazy stuff she does and live, and how Batman can take the punishment he does.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah, I mean, really folks - she can't be immune to gravity, because if she were, she could fly.

In D&D terms, she's resistant to gravity.
And the DM removed the limit to falling damage as an effect of the soul stone. Eventually, even a raging Barbarian is gonna buy the farm.

Which is interesting…Hulk seems to have both incredible resistance and regeneration. I wonder what would have happened if he’d been the one to sacrifice himself there…
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
My friends and I developed a fun theory for the animated Batman series. In that version of multiverse, all humans are super durable compared to our version. It explains how people like Lois Lane can do the crazy stuff she does and live, and how Batman can take the punishment he does.
Another fun theory is that Batman has access to advanced medicine that is withheld from the public, and he just accepts this without examination because even he has cognitive blind spots due to privilege.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
My friends and I developed a fun theory for the animated Batman series. In that version of multiverse, all humans are super durable compared to our version. It explains how people like Lois Lane can do the crazy stuff she does and live, and how Batman can take the punishment he does.

It feels like almost all of the citizens of the 616 must have resistance to PTSD (the Kang War in the Avengers by Busiek really drove that home as it was forgotten two issues later).
 

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