HBO to make George R.R. Martin' SoI&F into a series...

[IcedEarth81]

Oh, I agree that it has to be done right. It has to capture the main spirit of the book(s). My main point is some folks don't ever give a movie a chance. As Horace said, there are a large number of fans that hold the text to be some sacred entity and go as far as saying the movies shouldn't even be allowed to have the name LoTR on them.

 

[Banshee16]

Well, I just got to this chapter last night. I knew it was coming though, but you're right it did scream "ambush" from the get go.

I have to admit, even knowing what was coming, it was shocking. I hadn't realized just how complete a betrayal it was until I reached the end of the chapter.

God I hate Walder Frey.

You and me both. Hopefully he gets drawn and quartered. I'd like to read about him dying in severe pain.

There is some justice in the books. That's all I'll say

Banshee

 

[Mistwell]

No, it isn't. An option is an exclusive right to purchase the rights during the term of the option. It isn't the purchase of the right itself.

You're pretty strong on the declaratory "falses". You are in LA. Do you work in the entertainment law business?

I'm in Toronto - been practicing for 12 years - and I do.

You seem to be reading more into what I wrote...well, then what I wrote. The right to purchase a right is, itself, a right. It's one of several rights that come with an option. Exclusivity is another right. The right to shop a property is also a typical right that comes with an option, as is the right to confidentiality. When I said an option is the purchase of rights...those are some of the rights I was referring. What exactly are you disagreeing with there?

Yes, I am an entertainment lawyer, in Hollywood, married to an actress, with entertainment clients. And I have been a lawyer longer than you have, for what it is worth. I was hoping to not make this a personal issue, and just discuss the topic without thwacking out credentials on the table...

Fast Learner, who also spoke up on this issue, is also a lawyer I believe.

Perhaps Canadian law differs on this subject, I don't know. But what I wrote was accurate, which is why I was pretty strong on the declaratory "falses". Sorry if it came across too strong, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people misquote the law as if it's a D&D game rule that is merely a matter of opinion and lay interpretation.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I'd like to get into this, but honestly I've been more than a little bit cynical of HBO.

For one, I think they're trying too hard to get their next smash-hit, a la Sex And The City or The Sopranos (and to a lesser extent Six Feet Under). I have no doubt that the costs to make SoI&F would be staggering, just like Rome, and superficially the settings are similar. Yet Rome was recently confirmed as not coming back for a third season. So unless it would make quite a bit of profit, I don't really see it happening.

For another, while HBO does put out some very good stuff, it seems they take forever to get it done, especially in recent years. It was fourteen months from the end of Season 1 of Rome to the beginning of Season 2. For The Sopranos, the time in between seasons was even longer - sixteen between 3-4 and 4-5, and twenty-one between 5-6. The Wire has had similar gaps in its last few seasons, as did Carnivale between its two seasons. I would tend to expect similar here, and I'm not a fan of that.

Still, I'm hoping that it can get made, even if it's just the first book. It would be cool to see HBO tackle a fantasy series (er, Carnivale not withstanding), and if it gets Martin more exposure, that's great too.

 

[Berandor]

I'd like to get into this, but honestly I've been more than a little bit cynical of HBO.

For another, while HBO does put out some very good stuff, it seems they take forever to get it done, especially in recent years. It was fourteen months from the end of Season 1 of Rome to the beginning of Season 2. For The Sopranos, the time in between seasons was even longer - sixteen between 3-4 and 4-5, and twenty-one between 5-6. The Wire has had similar gaps in its last few seasons, as did Carnivale between its two seasons. I would tend to expect similar here, and I'm not a fan of that.

If anything, that is even more in favor of HBO doing George Martin. They work alike!

 

[SecondTime]

I expect this, if it does get made, to basically be Rome set in the middle ages, with perhaps fewer sets and a much reduced cast to control costs. Expect heavy rewriting.

Its themes are very much in keeping with those of other HBO shows, i.e. it tends to skewer the romantic notions people have about the past, whether ancient or recent (Rome/Deadwood), but with some manifistation of the hopes the masses hold in the supernatural poking around in the periphery (Carnival). This means it might come off as formulaic, i.e. a stererotypical HBO/BBC/PBS costume drama.

On a plus note, some good but poorly paid british actors and actresses are inevitably going to get more work. A BBC collaboration? Maybe, though I doubt there is a huge audience for this amongst the brits, though it might be more popular with american anglophiles.

 

[SecondTime]

That being said, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Ranger REG]

Meh. If you ask me, we need a network that specifically caters to two (not one) genres: science fiction and fantasy fiction. Screw SCI-FI.

 

[Celtavian]

re

See, this is why I'm not a member of any messageboard devoted exclusively to all things Tolkien. In most cases you're bound to find a number Tolkien purists who hold the movies in contempt and worship the books as some sort of sacred text. And anytime you try to defend the movies to these people they just respond with so called intellectual arguments but are really just snobbery in disguise. It's bloody fanboy elitism at it's worst, and I hate that.

So, as for the concerns to whether the ASOIAF series will remain faithful to the books, I don't think fans need to worry. HBO has done daring progamming before, and are willing to do stuff that conventional TV would never even dream of doing. It's safe to say that they're the only ones capable of translating the brutality and harshness of Martin's world.

This is pretty irritating. The LotR movies were badly done in many areas and ruined quite a few characters. The only place where Peter Jackson really hit the nail on the head is with the special effects, but he did a poor job on most of the really key scenes in the film. Not only did they diverge from the text, but they also made no sense in the movie itself or lacked the emotional impact of the text.

I bought the extended edition of all three movies. I really enjoyed them when they first came out. But after multiple viewings, I became more and more dissatisfied with the final product until I gave them away. They just weren't well done and had glaring logic problems with plot and character beyond the differences between the book and movie.

I don't mind that people enjoy the movies. Just don't argue that they are better or equal to the books with all the problems that even a halfway intelligent viewer could find with the plot and character inconsistencies. I for one am happy that Peter Jackson is not doing The Hobbit, then I might have to watch another Tolkien work bastardized because a director with a poor sense of storytelling has a great eye for visual effects.


I very much doubt that ASoIaF will have the same problem as the LotR with the fans. Tolkien fans more than likely have a different basis for judging the books than Martin fans, at least the purists like myself. I very much like the morality in LotR as much as I like the story itself. The movies at times obfuscated the value systems of the cultures presented in the books, which was very troubling to me. I won't have that same type of investment in ASoIaF, because morality is relative to the situation or nonexistent.

My main concern is how will they handle the sometimes extreme material in ASoIaF. The pedofilia alone with Daenerys will offend modern sensibilities, even though in the time a 14 year old girl having relations was not uncommon. Also what happens to Bran will deeply offend most, as harming children is viewed poorly. It will be difficult for them to redeem Jamie as effectively as the book in a visual medium IMO.

Martin definitely has alot of stong themes involving children. I'm going to enjoy seeing how HBO handles this kind of material. It should be interesting. Can you imagine the graphic Red Wedding scene on the screen? You know they would show it. Just talking about it as they did in the book wouldn't capture the scene, though I guess they could do a flashback sequence. I'm looking forward to a ASoIaF being brought to the film medium. Should be interesting.

 

[Mistwell]

This is pretty irritating....I don't mind that people enjoy the movies. Just don't argue that they are better or equal to the books with all the problems that even a halfway intelligent viewer could find with the plot and character inconsistencies. I for one am happy that Peter Jackson is not doing The Hobbit, then I might have to watch another Tolkien work bastardized because a director with a poor sense of storytelling has a great eye for visual effects.

In my opinion the movies are equal to the books. I am a halfway intelligent viewer or better, and I do not find the plot and character inconsistencies that you do.

I understand and appreciate your perspective on those movies. But when you start telling people what they should not argue about those films, or that they are not halfway intelligent viewers if they don't agree with your viewpoint, I think you have crossed a line that is better suited to a board like http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/ . It's a directly aggressive stance you are taking that could easily be interpreted as insulting.

And by the way, in my opinion Peter Jackson has a better than 50% chance of making the Hobbit. I think based on recent news on that subject, you will see that the odds seem to be that New Line will lose the rights to the film due to delay on exercising their option, and that it will default back to the rights owner who plans on doing it with Jackson.