D&D 5E Healing spirit has been updated?

[Chaosmancer]

I personally have no issue with a crossbow wielding wizard. I'd gladly give you a cantrip that scales crossbow damage for a single attack with it.

That would seem to miss the point of what Saelorn wants, and frankly if it doesn't use INT, it is still a worse choice than a cantrip.

 

[cbwjm]

I asked Jeremy Crawford on Twitter if it was an April Fools joke and...no reply

I wouldn't worry too much about this being an April fool's joke, mainly because this isn't really all that funny and that April fool's jokes tend to an extreme rather than just some rather minor errata.

 

[Gladius Legis]

So again, when you look at the Cleric, Bard, Paladin, Druid and Ranger. The Ranger is the worst "Healer" of the lot, even when you account for Healing Spirit.

And other than the Druid, only the Ranger was healing 10d6 to each character with a 2nd-level slot. You can go on and on about all that other stuff, but only those two classes were healing to nearly that much effect with a 2nd-level slot. Even Prayer of Healing, explicitly designed to be the powerful mass-healing spell that level, didn't compare.

Conjure Animals is one of the most commonly nerfed or banned spells I've ever seen. Also, a single good spell in 3rd level does not a good caster make.

Judging spells based on how many DMs in your own narrow experience ban them is ridiculous on its face. Also, you only need 1 good spell to make your slots of that level useful.

Freedom of Movement seems situational to me,

No concentration. Lasts an hour. Prevents getting grappled, paralyzed or restrained. Ignores difficult terrain. That's not situational at all.

Guardian of Nature is a decent spell though. I'm not sure if it is still good at level 13, but my 7th level Druid has liked it a lot.

Straight-up advantage is good at any level.

Swift Quiver has been pointed out as being slightly controversial as a good spell.

The "controversy" is mainly for the Bard who takes it as a Magical Secret. Bards don't use it well since they don't have the Archery Fighting Style that helps them cut down on the Sharpshooter attack penalty. Rangers have that fighting style and have their subclass damage buff, making Swift Quiver better for them.

Wrath of Nature sucks at 17th level. If you don't have trees nearby all it does is create difficult terrain and let you throw non-magical rocks for 3d8 damage. And that took your action to create.

Well, yes, the whole idea is to cast that spell when you have trees nearby. Which is ... quite a lot of places in a typical campaign. Those rocks, by the way, are good for knocking down flying enemies, and do so regardless of their size. And they're thrown as a bonus action.

 

[Captain Panda]

So at 3rd level, assuming wisdom 16 (+3), you could cure wounds for instant 2d8+3 (12) or healing spirit for 4d6 (14).

They took the spell from "a bit too much" to "garbage" instantly. This is why they shouldn't be using errata to balance things.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That is not correct, both pre- and post-errata.

On their turn, a player moves their character into and out of the healing spirit. They get healed. They Ready Movement. On someone else's turn in the same round, they use their Reaction and move into and out of the healing spirit. They get healed. Later in the same round, someone else uses Shove to push the character into the healing spirit. They get healed.

There is 3 instances of healing in the same round.

Sorry, I was under the assumption each PC would want their share. If other creatures want to give up the healing on their turns, that still limits the healing to be the number of turns taking in the round.

I suppose you could snipe one extra use on the DM's turn... but that's the limit.

 

[Gladius Legis]

So at 3rd level, assuming wisdom 16 (+3), you could cure wounds for instant 2d8+3 (12) or healing spirit for 4d6 (14).

They took the spell from "a bit too much" to "garbage" instantly. This is why they shouldn't be using errata to balance things.

1. That 14 points can be split between allies, making it more versatile and generally useful.
2. Cure Wounds takes an action. Healing Spirit is still a bonus action, making it still a lot more useful in combat.
3. Upscale both spells to a 3rd-level slot, Cure Wounds heals 3d8+3 (16.5), while Healing Spirit heals 8d6 (28). Healing Spirit still upscales A LOT better.

 

[Captain Panda]

3. Upscale both spells to a 3rd-level slot, Cure Wounds heals 3d8+3 (16.5), while Healing Spirit heals 8d6 (28). Healing Spirit still upscales A LOT better.

That's fair, still an overcorrection though.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And other than the Druid, only the Ranger was healing 10d6 to each character with a 2nd-level slot. You can go on and on about all that other stuff, but only those two classes were healing to nearly that much effect with a 2nd-level slot. Even Prayer of Healing, explicitly designed to be the powerful mass-healing spell that level, didn't compare.

Okay, but that doesn't change the point. "All that other stuff" is what I was talking about. Ignoring it doesn't change what I was talking about.

Judging spells based on how many DMs in your own narrow experience ban them is ridiculous on its face. Also, you only need 1 good spell to make your slots of that level useful.

So first, that would mean your comment before about "having enough good spells to make a choice" wasn't true, correct? Because you only care about having 1 good spell, regardless of their being a choice or not.

Secondly, judging a spell that is very commonly talked about as needing a nerf, and very commonly nerfed, is not ridiculous. Conjure Animals is not only discussed at my tables, but on the forums quite often. Recognizing that is important to recognizing if a Ranger would ever take the spell.

No concentration. Lasts an hour. Prevents getting grappled, paralyzed or restrained. Ignores difficult terrain. That's not situational at all.

I've had entire sessions go by without grappling, paralyzing or restraining. And by the time Ranger's get Freedom of Movement, they are immune to difficult terrain from nonmagical sources.

So, yeah, situational. Do I think that I am going to get grappled, restrained or paralyzed in the next hour or face magical terrain? Is that worth my only 4th level slot when I've dealt with such things for the past 13 levels?

Straight-up advantage is good at any level.

True

The "controversy" is mainly for the Bard who takes it as a Magical Secret. Bards don't use it well since they don't have the Archery Fighting Style that helps them cut down on the Sharpshooter attack penalty. Rangers have that fighting style and have their subclass damage buff, making Swift Quiver better for them.

That is my thought, but I remember hearing otherwise as well.

Well, yes, the whole idea is to cast that spell when you have trees nearby. Which is ... quite a lot of places in a typical campaign. Those rocks, by the way, are good for knocking down flying enemies, and do so regardless of their size. And they're thrown as a bonus action.

Sure, in a typical campaign. But what about at level 17? At that point you are equally likely to be in the Underdark, Hell, or any number of other places. Not a lot of trees in the Elemental Plane of Fire after all.

And it is good for knocking down enemies within the 60ft cube, which is big, but if I'm an archer, I could be sniping them from much farther, so they might be trying to get further away than that. Plus, a strength save is fairly easy for a large creature to make, so not sure the size is to your advantage on this spell.


One thing that always has to be remembered with Rangers and Paladins is just how late they get their final spells. The campaigns usually look a lot different by the end than they do early on when the usual tactics of 3rd or 4th level spells are used.

 

[ad_hoc]

Healing Spirit was supposed to bring a Druid up to A tier with the Cleric and Ranger up to C tier with the Paladin. But it was too strong.

Do you have a citation for that?

5e rules are written narrative first.

They have a story idea and then they work out how to represent that in the game (ie. mechanics).

I would guess someone thought it was a cool thematic idea and that's why it is in the game.

I don't see how we can look at Healing Spirit and come to any conclusion other than that it was intended to be used 1/round. It was written in the exact same language as the damaging versions of the same mechanic. The reason it didn't work this time while the damaging spells do work is because characters actually want to enter it.

 

[Minigiant]

Do you have a citation for that?

5e rules are written narrative first.

They have a story idea and then they work out how to represent that in the game (ie. mechanics).

I would guess someone thought it was a cool thematic idea and that's why it is in the game.

I don't see how we can look at Healing Spirit and come to any conclusion other than that it was intended to be used 1/round. It was written in the exact same language as the damaging versions of the same mechanic. The reason it didn't work this time while the damaging spells do work is because characters actually want to enter it.

Because it's Ranger and Druid only.
And Bard, Cleric, and Paladin didn't get a new nd level healing spell in XGTE.