D&D 5E (2014) Healing spirit has been updated?

[cbwjm]

I think it's more likely the DnD team had an idea for a healing spell and since that idea was a spirit, it fit more with the nature theme of druid and ranger.

 

[Minigiant]

I think it's more likely the DnD team had an idea for a healing spell and since that idea was a spirit, it fit more with the nature theme of druid and ranger.

The newest UA has 5+ spirits for every caster though. And Rangers get the least spirits. Druid the 3rd least.

Spirits in a general sense aren't tied to either unless it directly tied to nature. And Rangers only geture animal and plant nature spirits, not fey nor elemental natural spirits.

 

[cbwjm]

The newest UA has 5+ spirits for every caster though. And Rangers get the least spirits. Druid the 3rd least.

Spirits in a general sense aren't tied to either unless it directly tied to nature. And Rangers only geture animal and plant nature spirits, not fey nor elemental natural spirits.

Perhaps it's more the type of spirit in the latest UA example that determines who gets what. There is variation to which class gets which summons in the latest UA (conjure fey is i believe druid and ranger only. Actually I just looked it up. It is druid and warlock, I could have sworn it was 5th level but it's actually 6th so is unavailable to a ranger), it doesn't meant much though when it comes to healing spirit since it came out a while ago and doesn't reflect on any changing ideas the design team might have. They also call it a nature spirit. The original concept of the spell might very well have just lent itself to the nature casters rather than being some sort of healing upgrade to bring them up in healing capability.

 

[Minigiant]

Perhaps it's more the type of spirit in the latest UA example that determines who gets what. There is variation to which class gets which summons in the latest UA (conjure fey is i believe druid and ranger only. Actually I just looked it up. It is druid and warlock, I could have sworn it was 5th level but it's actually 6th so is unavailable to a ranger), it doesn't meant much though when it comes to healing spirit since it came out a while ago and doesn't reflect on any changing ideas the design team might have. They also call it a nature spirit. The original concept of the spell might very well have just lent itself to the nature casters rather than being some sort of healing upgrade to bring them up in healing capability.

Rangers don't get conjure fey spirit. Which is funny because Healing Spirit is the only get spell rangers received besides Conjure Woodland Spirits in PHB. Not one in a UA outside of the get wanderer subclass. So it feels more WOTC doesn't think get is a ranger theme.

This could suggest that the mechanics came before flavor. That the wanted a druid and ranger healing spell, thought it being a spirit conjuration would fit, and made the imagery last. "Healing Spirit" doesn't even sound like a druid spell.

There no way to know for sure. However how overpowered Healing Spirit is, it seems like they didn't think too much on this spell. It is all messed up.

 

[abirdcall]

Because it's Ranger and Druid only.
And Bard, Cleric, and Paladin didn't get a new nd level healing spell in XGTE.

Yeah, that just isn't how they do most of their design.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The wizard doesn't use a crossbow, because while he is average, average just gets you killed when you miss the enemy.

That would seem to miss the point of what Saelorn wants, and frankly if it doesn't use INT, it is still a worse choice than a cantrip.

Many people will say that a crossbow is actually better than a cantrip, especially at low levels. You lose a bit of accuracy (assuming a typical wizard stat spread), but you make up for it with much higher damage.

The real "innovation" of 4E, which 5E adopted, was to make your stats irrelevant by letting you use your one good score for anything you really care about. Cantrips let a wizard have a reliable ranged attack, even if their Dexterity is garbage. Javelins let a paladin have a reliable ranged attack, even if their Dexterity is garbage. Finesse weapons let a rogue have a strong melee attack, even if their Strength is garbage.

And to what benefit? To strengthen the existing archetypes? To remove meaningful choices, of shoring up your weaknesses rather than improving your strengths even further?

It's pointless, especially since they then go in and enforce those mandatory shortcomings in other ways. Wizards are supposed to be bad with their at-will ranged attacks, but since you can no longer use Dexterity as a variable, they give cantrips even worse damage than a crossbow. Wizards are supposed to be bad with their at-will ranged attacks, but since you can no longer use Dexterity as a variable, they make javelins so that you can only use one of them per round. Rogues are supposed to be bad at melee, but since we can no longer use Strength as a variable, they just make finesse weapons worse as a baseline. It's tedious, unnecessary complexity.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Many people will say that a crossbow is actually better than a cantrip, especially at low levels. You lose a bit of accuracy (assuming a typical wizard stat spread), but you make up for it with much higher damage.

What?

Let us assume the wizard has a 14 dex, and they are using a light crossbow (it is a simple weapon, so the only crossbow they are likely to use)

That means their damage is 1d8+2. Average of about 6.
Firebolt is 1d10, average of about 5.
Most other cantrips are 1d8+effect, average damage about 4 with a special effect rider.

So, if your wizard wants damage, a crossbow is about 1 point on average better damage, if you have a 14 dex. That is not "much higher damage"

Even if you went with a Heavy Crossbow, which frankly they would not get considering no non-martial class gets it, that is still an average of 7 damage (1d10+2)

And, considering most of the other cantrips make up with their lower damage with special effects, I'd say in all it is actually very comparable.

The real "innovation" of 4E, which 5E adopted, was to make your stats irrelevant by letting you use your one good score for anything you really care about. Cantrips let a wizard have a reliable ranged attack, even if their Dexterity is garbage. Javelins let a paladin have a reliable ranged attack, even if their Dexterity is garbage. Finesse weapons let a rogue have a strong melee attack, even if their Strength is garbage.

And to what benefit? To strengthen the existing archetypes? To remove meaningful choices, of shoring up your weaknesses rather than improving your strengths even further?

It's pointless, especially since they then go in and enforce those mandatory shortcomings in other ways. Wizards are supposed to be bad with their at-will ranged attacks, but since you can no longer use Dexterity as a variable, they give cantrips even worse damage than a crossbow. Wizards are supposed to be bad with their at-will ranged attacks, but since you can no longer use Dexterity as a variable, they make javelins so that you can only use one of them per round. Rogues are supposed to be bad at melee, but since we can no longer use Strength as a variable, they just make finesse weapons worse as a baseline. It's tedious, unnecessary complexity.

Cantrips don't have worse damage than crossbows
Finesse weapons aren't worse than baseline, they just can't be used in two hands (no weapon does more than a 1d8 one-handed, and considering fencing is not a sport where you put both hands on the foil, that seems to pan out)
I agree the thrown weapon rules are dumb, since you can draw a weapon as part of an attack action, so I let them throw as many as they have attacks. But, that is a houserule.


Also note that "reliable" ranged attack for strength characters? 1d6, compared to the much better 1d8 and 1d10 of the longbow and heavy crossbow (all strength characters are martial, so this is an important point). Additionally their range is terrible (30 ft short, even the shortbow has 80ft)

So, it gives them a chance to make a ranged attack, while not being terrible, but is still worse than someone dedicated to dexterity.

And, Rogues using sneak attack on dex is pretty much their only option. I'm not sure what the rules used to be, but I believe it has been finesse weapons or saps for rogues sneak attacking since 3.5. 4e had nothing to do with it. And, while you could let them get strength sneaks, that opens up the ability for them to use polearms, reach weapons that will make them even more impossible to pin down.

Also, I see no meaningful choices removed. I think it more just allows characters to be effective, without having to have long stretches of time where they are uselessly flailing around.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

So, if your wizard wants damage, a crossbow is about 1 point on average better damage, if you have a 14 dex. That is not "much higher damage"

When you're fighting something with 5hp, the difference between 1d10 and 1d8+2 is pretty significant.

Also, I see no meaningful choices removed. I think it more just allows characters to be effective, without having to have long stretches of time where they are uselessly flailing around.

It removes the option of playing a high-Dex wizard or paladin, who makes up for having lower peak efficacy by raising their floor performance. It means that the right way to play a wizard is to maximize their Int, because that's all you ever need, instead of there being any trade-offs involved.

 

[Chaosmancer]

When you're fighting something with 5hp, the difference between 1d10 and 1d8+2 is pretty significant.

Average damage 5 vs average damage 6.

On Average, both kill the target in a single hit. That seems non-signifigant.

It removes the option of playing a high-Dex wizard or paladin, who makes up for having lower peak efficacy by raising their floor performance. It means that the right way to play a wizard is to maximize their Int, because that's all you ever need, instead of there being any trade-offs involved.

No, I don't think it does. There are still advantages to being a high Dex wizard or paladin.

The difference is that you have far fewer penalties for being a low-dex wizard or paladin.

And since the game has given us fewer opportunities to increase our base stats compared to older editions, I'd say that is a good thing.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, that just isn't how they do most of their design.

That's my point. Healing Spirit is so weird it feels like it was designed differently.