D&D 5E Healing Surges and 5E

[Mercurius]

I assume healing surges won't be in the core rules of 5E, right? Has anyone official said anything about this? Will they possibly be in an optional module of some kind?

I might be one of the rare birds that both likes the semi-retro approach of 5E, but also liked healing surges. Surges seemed the natural and appropriate mechanism for the idea of HP being an abstraction that included a lot of factors, including stamina and an experienced character's ability to slough off major bodily damage. It always seemed to me that the criticisms of healing surges were largely based on the faulty assumption that HP were "body points" and body points only. But that's all water under the bridge at this point...

 

[Klaus]

They're present in the concept of Hit Dice, which you sepnd during a short (1 hour) rest to regain hit points.

 

[MortalPlague]

They're present in the concept of Hit Dice, which you sepnd during a short (1 hour) rest to regain hit points.

This.

If you want to make these function like 'healing surges', it's easily fixed; just maximize all dice rolls for hit dice.

If you're referring to the way healing spells interacted with surges in 4th Edition, you may have a little more work on your hands to house-rule that in.

 

[Li Shenron]

I assume healing surges won't be in the core rules of 5E, right? Has anyone official said anything about this? Will they possibly be in an optional module of some kind?

I might be one of the rare birds that both likes the semi-retro approach of 5E, but also liked healing surges. Surges seemed the natural and appropriate mechanism for the idea of HP being an abstraction that included a lot of factors, including stamina and an experienced character's ability to slough off major bodily damage. It always seemed to me that the criticisms of healing surges were largely based on the faulty assumption that HP were "body points" and body points only. But that's all water under the bridge at this point...

It's definitely not past the bridge. Despite of all attempts at telling players that HP are much more abstract than physical damage (check the description in the 5e playtest rules: it says you don't even get anything more than a scratch until you have 0 HP!), there is still and always will be a large amount of players who will always think of HP as mostly physical, because they see damage as mostly physical and characters as capable of being "worn down" by damage (as opposed to one-wound equalling dropping out-of-fight, which is after all what corresponds to 5e description of hit points).

However, I don't know what are healing surges exactly in 4e. Apart from the horrible name, IIRC healing surges interacted with second wind and healing spells by use of jargon mechanics, which I think it's way too gamist for my tastes and therefore something I am very glad that 5e hit dice aren't using.

So 5e still has the concept of being able to regain hit points during the day, minus the horrible name. Also, 5e has a rules-light approach and at least some attempt at associating the mechanic with the narrative (although I suppose 4e had it too for the surges).

I don't know if 4e healing surges also allowed to regain hit points during the battle... that is even harder to associate with the narrative. However 5e has that too, albeit limited to the Fighter's Second Wind feature (which tests my own limits on disassociated mechanics acceptance...). If you're a fan of that, it shouldn't be hard to make it a feat available to everyone in a later book.

 

[RangerWickett]

In my first 4e game, the party was bitten by snakes, poisoned, then made their saves. Then, as they described it, they spent five minutes "flexing their muscles to squeeze the poison out."

That's why healing surges didn't make sense. The game designers weren't consistent with what the mechanic meant. If you're regaining your vigor with a short rest, that shouldn't fix tissue damage from poison. And if you're not receiving tissue damage, what is it about the snake's bite that causes ongoing HP damage? Are you just worried that you're poisoned? So worried that if you fail your saves for a few rounds you pass out from panic?

 

[TwoSix]

In my first 4e game, the party was bitten by snakes, poisoned, then made their saves. Then, as they described it, they spent five minutes "flexing their muscles to squeeze the poison out."

That's why healing surges didn't make sense. The game designers weren't consistent with what the mechanic meant. If you're regaining your vigor with a short rest, that shouldn't fix tissue damage from poison. And if you're not receiving tissue damage, what is it about the snake's bite that causes ongoing HP damage? Are you just worried that you're poisoned? So worried that if you fail your saves for a few rounds you pass out from panic?

Tissue damage isn't loss of hit points, it's loss of healing surges. Being below max of healing surges is your indication that you're starting to take actual bodily damage. To make it a bit more verisimilitude-y is why I only let characters recover 1 surge per extended rest, and only gain them all back with a 72-hour rest in civilization. For poison, I would probably lower their max healing surges until they get a Heal check or some ritual poison curing.

 

[TerraDave]

Yes, its hit dice. And since their are fewer encounter powers in play, you don't need something like surges to balance them.

In my first 4e game, the party was bitten by snakes, poisoned, then made their saves. Then, as they described it, they spent five minutes "flexing their muscles to squeeze the poison out."

That's why healing surges didn't make sense. The game designers weren't consistent with what the mechanic meant. If you're regaining your vigor with a short rest, that shouldn't fix tissue damage from poison. And if you're not receiving tissue damage, what is it about the snake's bite that causes ongoing HP damage? Are you just worried that you're poisoned? So worried that if you fail your saves for a few rounds you pass out from panic?

Thats why abstract and easily recovered HP don't make sense. You play 4E, and charecters are poisoned, driven crazy, affected by strange undead energy, set on fire (and burn for a while), have bleeding wounds (which bleed for while)...but it actually them being tired from running around. What damage are you talking about?

You are on fire or you are not.

But this is not specific to healing surges. (though they do have issues of their own). As twosix points out, surges are just a measure of how much damage the poison or fire, or whatever really does.

 

[RangerWickett]

All you need to do is practice discipline with how you make combat mechanics work. You can keep abstract hit points and not cause brain aneurysms, but you also must restrain yourselves from lazy game design.

For instance, say that whenever you drop below 1/2 your max HP, you become 'bloodied.' While bloodied you cannot heal above half your max HP. Magical healing removes the bloodied condition.

Now make it so anything that logically requires serious physical contact only happens if the target is bloodied. Poisoned blades don't manage to deliver the venom until you're bloodied. Snakebites just manage to nick you, not inject anything. If you're on fire, it's just your sleeve or something. You can't get swallowed whole or impaled on a monster's spikes.

 

[Klaus]

All you need to do is practice discipline with how you make combat mechanics work. You can keep abstract hit points and not cause brain aneurysms, but you also must restrain yourselves from lazy game design.

For instance, say that whenever you drop below 1/2 your max HP, you become 'bloodied.' While bloodied you cannot heal above half your max HP. Magical healing removes the bloodied condition.

Now make it so anything that logically requires serious physical contact only happens if the target is bloodied. Poisoned blades don't manage to deliver the venom until you're bloodied. Snakebites just manage to nick you, not inject anything. If you're on fire, it's just your sleeve or something. You can't get swallowed whole or impaled on a monster's spikes.

That just proved how easily house-ruled 4e can be to adjust to a group's gaming tastes. There's an Unearthed Arcana column a while back that limited healing and short rests for a more grim 'n' gritty style.

 

[Mistwell]

Don't fighters still get one?