Healing Surges innate Blessed band aids

[Zil]

I think you're wrong in assuming that only the younger generation can appreciate 4e. I'm in my fifties and have been playing D&D since 1974, but I still look forward to playing this new edition. Its rules about healing make so much sense to me - in a D&D world.

I didn't say that _only_ the younger generation will appreciate 4E, just that they are more likely to appreciate it because popular culture has changed since we were young and those changes are bound to work their way into game eventually. When I do a straw poll of fellow gamers in our extended D&D group I find that the younger gamers like more of the features in 4E than the older (i.e. those in their late 30s, 40s) gamers. That doesn't mean that all younger gamers like the new features, nor does it mean that all older gamers dislike what they've heard about 4E. What it means is that more of the old-timers (in my circle) are on the fence or leaning towards avoiding 4E and it means that more of the younger crowd (again in my circle) have decided they are definitely going with 4E.

 

[Zil]

Lastly, there is nothing MMPORG like that is inherent in 4e. I know this. I've been playing mmporg's since UO launched, and been through UO,EQ,AO,SWG, Vanguard and WoW.

If it comes down to stating creds, I've been administering and designing/programming on-line Fantasy RPGs since back in 1991, so I know something about what I'm talking about when I see design elements that look like something designed to fit well in a computer simulation. But that was never my point. I don't personally have any problems with D&D 4E feeling more like a computer game.

What I have problems with are mechanics that are too "in your face" mechanical and which break my ability to immerse myself in the game. I also dislike gutting the Vancian spell system. While I do like to occasionally play the D&D minis game, I don't like my D&D games feeling too much like the minis game, which some of the abilities and terms chosen make it feel. I don't like that the characters are now heroes at first level and that there is an inherent assumption that players are far better/more important than everyone else in the world. I'm disappointed that they moved away from a standard build system for players and monsters/NPCs, but I can see why they did so because it was always more difficult/time consuming to build NPCs/monsters in 3.x than in earlier versions of D&D. I also find that the attempt to balance all the classes with a consistent set of mechanics has made them a bit too similar and suspect that they might get bland after a while of regular play.

The healing surge mechanic is one of those things that doesn't quite work for me. While it seems fairly elegant as a game mechanic, it doesn't really mesh well with how I like to run or play in D&D. I find the healing surge is more "gamey" and feels like a less realistic approach to hit points - or at least it has not been explained in a way that I can wrap my head around so that I can still immerse myself in the world.

 

[hong]

I don't like that the characters are now heroes at first level and that there is an inherent assumption that players are far better/more important than everyone else in the world.

That's the zeitgeist talking. Ignore it.

 

[Zil]

That's the zeitgeist talking. Ignore it.

If I ever do run a 4E campaign, you can be sure I will.

 

[Henry]

Assuming my group plays some 4e when it comes out (which is like assuming we'll breathe in June, too), I may experiment with varying the number of healing surges per person, at default values and then maybe lower values to see whether it affects the game's other elements besides just the number of fights per day they can have. Honestly, I may even play with the Star Wars condition track to simulate ability damage, wounds, etc. It doesn't seem that hard to make 4e back into a grittier game if that's my wish; this may change in June, but the info I see now doesn't suggest that it would be very hard.

 

[D'karr]

I was running a demo last night and deadliness is alive and well in 4e. The party encountered some undead and things were not going well. At one time I had a dead cleric, an unconscious warlock, an unconscious on fire ranger, and an unconscious fighter. With a paladin on fire and a wizard on fire.

They only survived that combat because the paladin used up all his Lay of Hands power on the ranger.

So after several demo games, I don't see a need to make the game deadlier.

 

[AllisterH]

The healing surge mechanic is one of those things that doesn't quite work for me. While it seems fairly elegant as a game mechanic, it doesn't really mesh well with how I like to run or play in D&D. I find the healing surge is more "gamey" and feels like a less realistic approach to hit points - or at least it has not been explained in a way that I can wrap my head around so that I can still immerse myself in the world.

That's an interesting point.

I'm actually blanking as to what game "Healing Surges" most resembles from. I'm coming up with a blank since I've honestly never heard of healing being limited on the recipient side other than in novels. Pretty much in every game, healing is unlimited as long as you have access to "healing", be it magic, stim-paks or just simple time. Healing Surges though, force an innate limit to how much healing can be done in a certain time frame.

Seriously, I am curious as to what game this most resembles.

So, to me, the healing Surge mechanic seems more like a feature you find in a novel so which is why I wonder why people seem to equate it with a GAMIST sensibility.

 

[The Little Raven]

Because I don't accept videogame-like handwaving at my table?

So, did you end up writing up rules for eating, drinking, and sleeping, since by RAW, you don't have to do any of them to survive?

I can understand hit points being an abstract concept, but I don't see how you can abstract the mechanism of healing.

So, you can understand hit points being an abstract concept, but the mechanism restoring that abstract concept can't be abstract?

 

[Lizard]

So, did you end up writing up rules for eating, drinking, and sleeping, since by RAW, you don't have to do any of them to survive?

I'm pretty sure there's starvation and thirst rules in the DMG, and I know there's rules for lack of sleep, as we used them a few games ago when the PCs decided to press on to beat rivals to the adventure site.

 

[WhatGravitas]

... rules for lack of sleep, as we used them a few games ago when the PCs decided to press on to beat rivals to the adventure site.

Where?

Cheers, LT.