Healing Surges innate Blessed band aids

[Imban]

However, I strongly suspect that one of the reasons clerics ended up getting really beefed up in 3E (both core and supplements) is because there are a lot of groups where nobody wants to play the heal-bot (particularly small groups, I think). Regardless of whether this is true or not, WotC definitely seems to have made it a design goal to explicity support cleric-less adventuring.

Once you make that a priority, I can't think of any better way to implement it than the healing surge/Second Wind mechanic.

The weird thing is, I'm honestly not sure from the released previews that they've made having a healbot less necessary so much as that they've made having a Cleric less necessary. It can just be a Warlord now, too. It's one of the things I'd like to see how it pans out in actual play.

(And in my experience, for a great majority of 3e levels, Wands of CLW and Belts of Healing can provide all the HP healing a party could want. Clerics mostly help later on when they get Heal, Mass Heal, and can fix permanent badstat like blindness, ability score drain, level drain, and death.)

 

[hong]

I've always believed damage is physical, but in a hilariously videogame-inspired way where the level-1 dude who's taken 5 points of damage has been run through by a shortsword and in need of medical attention, whereas the level-20 dude who's taken 5 points of damage has also been run through by a shortsword, but not really in need of medical attention in any meaningful way.

Good heavens. Are you suggesting that 4E isn't videogamey enough?

 

[hong]

Well, if all he needed was inspiring, then he wasn't hurt,

He was hurt, but the healing surge means he managed to ignore it. This could be because he was lucky enough to have a lucid moment (nat 20 to stabilise) or the warlord yelled at him so loud that it got through the fog of pain, or the cleric channeled the power of gawd and made it better.

It isn't that complicated, really.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Now as a standard action as another thread said in the title...I was unconscious before now I feel better...

Has it been confirmed than an unconcious character is able to use Second Wind? I would consider that if you aren't concious you can't take any actions. Now, you could 'shrug off' your bloodied condition, or stave off unconciousness, getting back 1/4 hit points before you are unconcious/dying.

 

[AZRogue]

Has it been confirmed than an unconcious character is able to use Second Wind? I would consider that if you aren't concious you can't take any actions. Now, you could 'shrug off' your bloodied condition, or stave off unconciousness, getting back 1/4 hit points before you are unconcious/dying.

I don't think an unconscious character can use Second Wind, but he could tap into a Healing Surge by rolling a natural 20 on his check each round.

 

[HeinorNY]

Well, if all he needed was inspiring, then he wasn't hurt

But the "morale healing" is not used only against "morale damage".

I think the whole issue here is to try to rationalize instantly non-magical HP healing. But it becomes easier when you just think that the "morale healing" is not gonna heal the wounds, it only gives the lost HP's back. When the character uses Second Wind, he doesn't make his wounds disappear, he is just supressing the effects that the wounds have on his ability to keep standing and fighting.

Really. Why couldn't the ranger lose HP's because he was physically wounded and then regain HP's because the warlord inspired him? Or because he caught his breath with the Second Wind, etc? The wound is still there, its still aching, the ranger is still hurt, but he regained his capacity to stand and fight, and this is represented by the regained HP's.

HP's do not represent physical wounds, lack of morale or weariness. HP's represent the effect of all this conditions on the character's capacity to stand, to fight, and to not be killed.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

*Nods* I agree with ainatan. Thus why I think the amount of Healing Surges you have left is the true indication of one's health. Since this shows just how much is left in them, and how much they can fight through their injuries.

So as such, the more you have used the less your able to contend with your wounds, the more serious the wounds become, etc.

 

[VannATLC]

I find it amusing that I both read this thread and watched the third episode of samurai Jack yesterday... The combination was fairly enlightening regarding the way 4E captures the spirit of cinematic fights. Seriously, if you want to watch the a fighter go through several phases of losing hitpoints (due to fatigue and gradual build-up of individually minor wounds), be put on the verge of taking a lethal blow, and then get up, shrug off his injuries, scream out his determination, and then fight with restored vigor again, then the third episode of Samurai Jack is a great example. I am pretty sure you could even describe one moment in the episode as a "five minute rest" between two encounters where his per-encounter resources are restored and he possibly gains a level.

I love that episode. Its sooo surreal. And yes.. its quite a good example.

 

[WalterKovacs]

It's still essentially the same thing as my earlier example. The power to heal a person is coming from within the person being healed. The divine influence of a cleric's healing spell or touch is now just a catalyst (or inspiration). And as such, it represents a radical departure from past versions of the game; it diminishes the role of a cleric to heal based on channeling the power of his or her god. Whether or not you like this I suppose depends on how attached you are to the idea that a cleric's healing touch/spell really is divine energy passed from a god/pantheon/faith.

If this is really how healing works in 4E, the big healers in a group should be the 4E bard because they are all about inspiring others.

In general, we've seen for healing surges:

Second Wind - A character 'summons' their ability to put themselves 'farther' from getting to the dying/bloodied condition by taking some time to catch their breath, like a boxer going back to the corner so they can 'shake it off'.

Warlord - The "corner man" shouts some encouragement, causing the person to snap out of it, 'shake it off' and basically, take a second wind without having to take the time [i.e. action] to do so.

Cleric - Similarly, they say a prayer and some comforting words, which similarly inspires the second wind type effect ... however, there is added benefit of their god helps to bolster the ally with additional healing through divine power.

In all those cases, a person can only be 'patched up' so much before they ultimately colapse under accumulated scrapes, scratches and bruises. The "limit" actually causes a different kind of simulation. Where as before, given enough wands/potions ... you could heal the party indefinitely, all the healing we've seen so far [note: seen so far] have been tied to the surges, and thus, a person can only be patched up so often before they need a good 6 hours of rest to "really" heal up.

With the Palidan, it's a bit different ... their gods [who they seem to be tied closer to. They HAVE to pick a god and HAVE to be his allignment ... the clerics don't seem to be as bound to their dieties as much as pali's] allow them to pass their own vitality onto others. Giving up their own ability to withstand damage and stave off death over time to allow their ally to do so instead.

 

[Imban]

Good heavens. Are you suggesting that 4E isn't videogamey enough?

Maybe I am.

Seriously, I only get on 4e for being videogamey when they do stuff like reveal Normal/Elite/Exceptional Items will be in the new edition, or that you'll have to hit 10th level to get a license to wear rings. You know, when they're ripping off stuff that I thought was kind of blah or outright stupid the first time through.