D&D 5E Heat Metal Spell. Unfair to Heavy Armor Wearers?

[JiffyPopTart]

Why is this "not fun for the player"? Is it simply an issue of "winning" or is there some other element?

If you don't already understand why this scenario is not fun for the players I don't think a message board discussion is going to make it make sense for you.

 

[Reynard]

If you don't already understand why this scenario is not fun for the players I don't think a message board discussion is going to make it make sense for you.

I was just prodding for discussion. That's what the boards are for, after all. Different people articulating different definitions of and limits of "fun" would have value, I think.

I could be wrong but I think you are basically saying if it isn't "fair" it isn't "fun." I agree with that sentiment. Determining what is "fair" is then the real issue. Is it "fair" to have an enemy druid cast heat metal on a party member and then teleport away? I think my answer would be "it depends." If there is no context to this scenario, then no, it isn't fair. If the druid is a recurring enemy, then it may well be fair in the context of their interactions with the party. If the PCs have used similar tactics against enemies, then absolutely yes, it is fair.

 

[Blue]

Proposed new title: Heat Metal Spell. Unfair to casters when there are never any worthwhile foes wearing metal armor?

Literally I took it at 3rd for my Bard, and swapped it out at 7th never having cast it once. Many combatts are against beasts, or a dragon, or whomever where there is not a single heavy armor wearing target. Then you have combats with a bunch of brigands or whatever, but Concentration means that I can either cast a spell that will affect a bunch of foes like Hypnotic Pattern, or I can cast a single target spell that precludes me having up any other concentration spell, and will likely be dead soon.

For four whole levels, Heat Metal was never the right choice to cast. Part of that is that I was comparing it to the rest of the Bard spell list, which is chock full of great Concentration spells, but even there damage spells do stand out because there are so few of them.

So it's a very situational spell. Quite good against a single target wearing metal. But less effective than other Concentration spells against a sizable force with metal armor, and completely useless against non-metal-users like beasts.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes. The saving throw should negate the disadvantage for the current round if you can't have it fall off. Or maybe a wosdom save then.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'm referring to a GM employing not-fun-for-the-players tactics like having a druid cast heat metal then teleporting to the moon and concentrating on it.

In D&D a single dead PC does not count as “losing.”

 

[Maxperson]

I would argue only Fighter and Rogue fit that.

I'm curious as to your reasoning that barbarians wouldn't be martial warriors. Monks I can see since they essentially use a form of magic.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd be going with no on that one, personally. If you've removed yourself from the fight to the point where it's totally irrelevant to your situation (like teleporting to the moon or any other place the enemy cannot conceivably get to), you pretty much can't spend actions on it.

Whereas I would allow it, sine all the things you can do in combat in actions you can also do out of combat. There's nothing sacred about combat that enables that spell to work.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure but I am curious about the rule. In my example the target escaped to the moon. But if the caster still gets to use a bonus action to inflict damage, then that wasn't an escape at all.

Then I think the error there is in calling it an escape. Escaping isn't automatic and as you note, the target didn't escape the spell. The vast majority of the time, teleporting to the moon will allow you to escape. With this spell it doesn't.

 

[Maxperson]

Telepathy and Tsunami are "Unlimited"

Storm of Vengeance has "Sight".

Control Weather has a 5 mile radius but it's technically Self.

Next up is 1 mile mile for Clairvoyance.

And after that Arcane Gate, at 500 feet.

Then there's a few at 150 feet.

Teleport also. If you've been to Oerth you can teleport from Toril straight there.

 

[James Gasik]

Teleport also. If you've been to Oerth you can teleport from Toril straight there.

Well yes, but if you look at the spell, it says "Range: 10 feet".

Also, let's be honest here. If I hit you with heat metal and Teleport away, it wasn't the heat metal that sealed your fate, it was the seventh level spell slot. And surely there's a better way to kill someone with a seventh level spell slot...

Although having said that, heat metal and forcecage is fairly sadistic. Ooh, or banishment!