Help build a 5th Level Tank

[Yair]

I want to design a "tank" to play in my next session, and I would appreciate any advice/suggestions/builds.
We use 3.5e rules, in the Ravenloft setting. For those not familiar with 3.5e Ravenloft, the rules are standard 3.5e except there are no Halflings, Paladins, or Monks, summoning and detect evil like effects don't work, and Will saves are very important. (There are numerous changes, but that's that in a nutshell.)
We also allow clerics to spontanously cast domain spells (but not cure spells).

The character should be 5th level, but with an eye towards higher levels (we rise about 1 level per two months). To generate ability scores we use 76 points distributed between the abilities (from 3 to 18), except 18 costs 1 point extra. (This is before racial and level modifiers.)
The character's role should be that of a tank - abosrbing hits and engaging in melee. We have two level 6 wizards in the party, plus one unknown character (new player) plues occasionally a ranger 5 or multiclassed bard 5.
The character should be non-evil.

I'm not sure on equipment, but going by DMG standards is probably fine.

We have a few weeks of down-time in the campaign every one to two levels. We usually don't have a lot of mometary resources.

I'm currently thinking of a dwarven defender build with fgt 4/sor 1 (enlarge person) and a spiked chain, plus the improved trip feat. (The idea is to stop anyone from getting to the rest of the party.) I'm not sure it's doable, however, and I'm open for other suggestions.

Anyone? Please?

 

[Dimensional]

I'd not bother with improved trip, it's nice, but with a spiked chain, they are not going to be able to AoO you anyway, and you don't need to drop the points into int 13 which can be better spent elsewhere.

Dwavern defender is good, I like it, but the feat requirements are stiff.

Also drop scorcer Lvl if all you wan't is Enlarge person, rather get a lvl of cleric and the Strength Domain.

so here goes

Stats

Str 18 (17 plus 4th lvl bonus point)
Dex 13
Con 18 (16 plus dwavern bonus)
wis 12
Int 8
Chr 8 (10 minus Dwavern penalty)

Lvl 1 Fighter - Combat reflexes, EWP Spiked Chain
Lvl 2 Cleric
Lvl 3 Fighter - PA, Cleave
Lvl 4 Fighter
Lvl 5 Fighter - Dodge

Lvls 6 and 7 should net one feat each for Endurance and toughness

then into DD lvls

Gives BAB +4 , Fort +10 , Ref +2, Will +4.

I leave Equipment up to you.

Jeremy

 

[Darkness]

Dwarf is good and spiked chain tripping is too.

Let's see. As a dwarf Ftr4/Sor1, you get 2 feats + 3 Ftr bonus feats.

At the very least, you need:

Combat Expertise [it's a prereq for Improved Trip]
EWP (spiked chain)
Improved Trip

I'd further recommend Combat Reflexes. This leaves you with 1 feat.

If you want to become a Dwarven Defender, you'll need BAB +7 and Dodge, Endurance, Toughness. You can meet that after becoming Ftr6/Sor2 (or Ftr7/Sor1) if you use your last feat for one of the prereqs of the class and then spend the next two feats for it as well. (Get Dodge with the Ftr6 bonus feat; the other two DDf prereqs can't be bought with Ftr bonus feats.)
Also, ask your DM if you can use Improved Toughness as prereq instead of Toughness. Any reasonable DM ought to agree.

As for stats... You need at least Int 13 and Dex 12 (to get any use out of Combat Reflexes). Also, you need at least Dex 13 to get Dodge later on. Tanks need lots of Str and Con. Still more Dex can't hurt, either, as Ravenloft probably isn't a good setting to wear heavy armor all the time. Lastly, you need Cha 11 to cast Sor 1 spells.

How about:

Str 15 +1 (level 4) = 16
Dex 13
Con 14 +2 (dwarf) = 16
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 13 -2 (dwarf) = 11

Well, this should get you started. Modify to taste. Personally, I'd drop the Sor level, reduce base Cha to 8 and put the 5 points freed this way into Str (17 base), Dex (14) and Wis (10). YMMV. Anyway, good luck.

 

[Thanee]

Improved Trip is good for the +4 bonus alone. Not to mention the extra attack you get.

And don't forget to pick up Iron Will eventually.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Khaalis]

You might want to check out the info here at the Character Optimization Library: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480

There are quite a few threads for fighters.

 

[Yair]

Thanks guys!
I have till thursday or so...

 

[Shadeus]

Dimensional: Your build doesn't meet the +7 BAB pre-req, so he's still got another level of some class to go.

I would recommend you forget that spellcaster level and focus on being what dwarven defenders do best: be a rock. Lots of hit points, low mobility abuse-taking machines. You have two wizards in the party, you taking one level of anything is going to hurt, especially wizard due to the armor restrictions. To be a tank you need the best armor class you can muster and the most hit points you can have.

Go fighter 5:

S 17 + 1 (level 4 increase)
D 13 (required for Dodge)
C 16 + 2 (racial bonus)
I 8
W 14
Ch 10 - 2 (racial bonus)

You might even drop to a Ch 6 and boost your Int to 10. Skills don't seem like a wise investment for a tank, but the DwD gets some great class skills including Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive. I boosted Wis a bit high since Will saves sound critical.

I'll offer a contrary opinion to spiked chains. Although they are a great weapon for dwarven defenders (because of the reach), they cost too much. Meaning, if you get combat reflexes with a 13 Dex, umm...yippee. You get one more AoO. Who cares. Imp. Trip is an awesome combo, but means you need a 13 Int to get it (for Combat Expertise) and those are precious ability score points that could be getting you hit points!

Forget that noise. You want a dwarven waraxe! It's a free exotic weapon, so it's all good. So now your feat choices should look like: WF (waraxe), Dodge, Power Attack, Cleave, Weap Spec (waraxe). At level 6 take Toughness and Endurance.

Now here comes the tough part. Do you go Dwarven Defender at level 8 or not. You start your PrC at the earliest possible moment, so that's the good thing. You get an AC bonus, d12 hp, good will save, and defensive stance. The only down side is you miss out on Greater WF. You could pick up a level of fighter later, but once you start down the dwarven defender path, the goodies down the road make it profitable to keep going. You probably still want to invest in Iron Will though. (You'd have a +6 Will save at level 8 though with no magic, not too shabby.)

So at level 5, with a mw waraxe, you have a +11 attack and a 1d10+6 to damage with an average of 52 hit points. Not too shabby. (Oh, and don't forget the bonus 3 hp from toughness coming next level )

 

[Meeki]

if you really want improved trip go polearms, guisarme with improved trip bump ur dex up a bit more to get some more AoO and always be in the front of your party facing the enemy. Now since it is raveloft you might want to invest in a feat called Luck of Heroes, i believe it is in FR handbook, +1 luck bonus to all your saves can be taken once and only at first level.

 

[Diirk]

If its in Ravenloft, he might have a bit of trouble qualifying for a FR regional feat...

 

[Gez]

I thought Paladins were OK in Ravenloft, but that they couldn't detect evil, so they detected chaos instead. But maybe this was changed for RL 3.5.

There are interesting options in Races of Stone, if you can have access to it, for a dwarf tank.

For an example of a build:

Str 17+1 (4th level)=18
Dex 13
Con 17+2 (dwarf mod)=19
Int 14
Wis 7
Cha 8-2 (dwarf mod)= 6

1st level: Fighter. Feats: Toughness. Skills: Climb 4, Heal 2.0, Jump 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2.0. Use Racial Substitution level to get Axe Focus instead of bonus feat: it gives Weapon Focus (battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, throwing axe, dwarven urgrosh-axe head).
2nd level: Fighter. Skills: Climb 5, Heal 2.5, Jump 5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2.5. Use Racial Substitution level to get Racial Foes: +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against orcs, giants, and gobelinoids.
3rd level: Fighter. Feat: Endurance. Skills: Heal 3.0, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3.0, Survival 1.0.
4th level: Fighter. Feat: Weapon Specialization (dwarven waraxe) (B). Skills: Handle Animal 4 (Or something else, Craft, Ride, whatever). Stat increase in Strength.
5th level: Ranger. Skills: Heal 5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 5, Survival 5. Gets Favored Enemy (either Undead, 'cause it's Ravenloft, or one of the Racial Foes, preferably Giants, to up the weapon damage to +4 against them), Track, and Wild Empathy.

6th level: Deepwarden (RoS). Gets Trap Sense (and Track again, sigh). Feat: Dodge. Take the skills you want, you have 6+2 skill points and a rich class skill list.
7th level: Deepwarden (RoS). Gets Stonewarden: adds your Con bonus to AC instead of your Dex bonus. Again, take the skills you want.
8th level: Dwarven Defender. Stat increase in Constitution.

The Deepwarden, like the Dwarven Defender, gets a d12 HD, full BAB, and good Fortitude.

That way, at level 8, you'll have BAB +8, HD 1d8+4d10+3d12+43 (counting the maxed HD at first level, that's an average of 93!).

Naked Armor class: 10+5 (Con bonus)+1 dodge (Dwarven Defender bonus)+1 dodge against one enemy (Dodge feat)= 17. Add armor and shield.

Damage: With a Dwarven Waraxe, and against a Giant, you get 1d10+10 or 1d10+12 without counting any enhancement bonus from magic. +4 from Str (+6 if wielding it two-handed), +2 from Weapon Spec., +2 from Racial Foes, and +2 from Favored Enemy.

If you do not take the 2nd level Racial Substitution level (I don't know Ravenloft enough to know if it's really worth it, as the primary enemies seem to be undead rather than savage humanoids and giants), Power Attack as a bonus feat seems a good choice. Opens up Cleave and Great Cleave.
Otherwise, at level 9, take Improved Critical. A 19-20 threat range on a x3 critical is nice and nifty!
If you really want to soak up damage like the best of the tanks, you could go for Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior) at level 9, it will adds your level to your hit points. Average hp at level 9 would thus be 109!

An asset of this build is that it will give you a few more hit points, and far more skill points, than a straight level 7 Fighter+Dwarven Defender combo. While you lose, on average, one hp from the Ranger level, you gain 2 more, on average again, from the Deepwarden levels, so the trade-off is in your advantage.

Your numerous skill points will help your character in non-combat situation: the Deepwarden class list includes Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Speak Language, Spot, Survival, Swim, and Use Rope. And, as you do not need any skill to qualify for Dwarven Defender, with your Int bonus, that's 16 skill points you can spend anyway you wish amongst those.