Greetings. I am asking for the help of the folks here to create a character that by RAW is legal yet would be considered very "Cheesey"; Books allowed all but dragon magazines IE: DM#313; No Gestalt, level buyback or more than 2 flaws, but the complete arcana variant classes & bloodlines are allowed; no 3rd party materials; must be level 20. things the character should have. 32 point buy for abilities; a superior Race/Templates within the guidelines of the books above are allowed; BAB at least 16+, Saves as high as possible in all 3 areas, no reliance on any other party members or items, limited class dipping and multiclass penalties; Things the character should be able to do Cast if needed, Disable traps if needed, Melee combat if needed. - while there are a couple classes that do these 3 things some do not do them well and the goal here is to get the things the character should have as well as be extreamly good in the 3 areas mentioned hense " CHEESEY " looking for the most possible RAW Cheese build possible within the above areas. (( now you are probably asking why)- it is the intent here to kill anything the DM tosses at the party as the party is tired of dieing to bs monsters that are way over the cr of the group, - now you might say talk it over with dm - it has been and so the group has decided that we will all use characters that do 3 things extreamly well and overlap with what at least 2 other party members are also doing - this is intended to teach the DM a lesson in using monsters appropriate to the CR of the group) - I look forward to ideas presented here - Thankyou
help build Character for a lousy situation
- Thread starter relytdan
- Start date
Cyclone_Joker
First Post
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8.
Traps are a joke, but if you actually care about them for reasons that baffle me, you could use Knowstones to get Instant Locksmith or whatnot. Beyond that, you have 9s. That means you have Shapechange. That means you just win, period.
Traps are a joke, but if you actually care about them for reasons that baffle me, you could use Knowstones to get Instant Locksmith or whatnot. Beyond that, you have 9s. That means you have Shapechange. That means you just win, period.
Nezkrul
First Post
while I agree that shapechange is awesome, and one of the most broken core spells printed; it has its limits and does not "win" every time. If you are playing D&D to "WIN" D&D, you're doing it wrong; there is no "winning" D&D, its a role-playing game intended to be a storytelling tool and to get people together to have fun with their imaginations - not a competition. The actions you take on your turn determine victory in combat, and the ones you do outside combat determine success or failure according to the DM. Now, that build is cool on paper when you ignore all the crunchy details, like 10 ranks in Knowledge (the planes) with only 1 class giving 2+int mod skill points for 1 level having it as a class skill that your build takes as its 7th class level; or the ability to cast dismissal or dispel evil. When you provide a build, CJ, and they ask you for details, INCLUDE THE DETAILS please. Otherwise you aren't contributing. Here are some baseline details for CJ's suggested build-
2 flaws (i suggest Weak Willed and Vulnerable), Human Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist of (insert good deity of magic that also happens to sponsor paladins) 8
Str- 10, Dex- 10, Con- 14, Int- 10, Wis- 12, Cha- 18; add all level-up points to charisma (physicals besides Con left low since you won't be in "human" form for pretty much the whole game - they get replaced with bigger numbers; however your hitpoints are still based of your original constitution score)
Feats- fl- Combat Casting, fl- Education, human feat and all other level feats as you desire (if you don't take Education, skill ranks for knowledges become crunchy)
Skill Points- 1st- Knowledge (religion 4), Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4; 2nd- +1 to the three knowledges; 3rd- +1 to the three knowledges; 4th- +1 to (the planes) and (religion), +1 Concentration; 5th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Concentration; 6th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Concentration; 7th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Spellcraft; 8th- +3 Spellcraft; 9th- +3 Spellcraft; 10th- +3 Spellcraft; 11th- +3 Spellcraft; 12th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 13th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 14th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 15th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 16th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 17th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 18th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 19th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 20th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration (end up with max ranks in spellcraft and concentration, and all required ranks for PrC's)
Equipment- take items that you can easily see to be wearable by whatever forms you want to assume with shapechange an make sure they buff your stats, ac, saves, etc.
Spells Known- at first level, pick shield as a spell known, and at 12th level, you have to take dismissal as a spell known to get into Sacred Exorcist, other than that you can trade out spells according to sorcerer whenever you level up, but you need to retain at least 1 abjuration known and dismissal or you lose access to some of your PRC features.
If you want another build suggestion I'll pm you the details for it but basically its Human Sorcerer 10 / Incantatrix 10, has base attack of +20, full spellcasting, tons of metamagic feats.
2 flaws (i suggest Weak Willed and Vulnerable), Human Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist of (insert good deity of magic that also happens to sponsor paladins) 8
Str- 10, Dex- 10, Con- 14, Int- 10, Wis- 12, Cha- 18; add all level-up points to charisma (physicals besides Con left low since you won't be in "human" form for pretty much the whole game - they get replaced with bigger numbers; however your hitpoints are still based of your original constitution score)
Feats- fl- Combat Casting, fl- Education, human feat and all other level feats as you desire (if you don't take Education, skill ranks for knowledges become crunchy)
Skill Points- 1st- Knowledge (religion 4), Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4; 2nd- +1 to the three knowledges; 3rd- +1 to the three knowledges; 4th- +1 to (the planes) and (religion), +1 Concentration; 5th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Concentration; 6th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Concentration; 7th- +1 to (the planes), +2 Spellcraft; 8th- +3 Spellcraft; 9th- +3 Spellcraft; 10th- +3 Spellcraft; 11th- +3 Spellcraft; 12th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 13th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 14th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 15th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 16th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 17th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 18th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 19th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration; 20th- +1 Spellcraft, +2 Concentration (end up with max ranks in spellcraft and concentration, and all required ranks for PrC's)
Equipment- take items that you can easily see to be wearable by whatever forms you want to assume with shapechange an make sure they buff your stats, ac, saves, etc.
Spells Known- at first level, pick shield as a spell known, and at 12th level, you have to take dismissal as a spell known to get into Sacred Exorcist, other than that you can trade out spells according to sorcerer whenever you level up, but you need to retain at least 1 abjuration known and dismissal or you lose access to some of your PRC features.
If you want another build suggestion I'll pm you the details for it but basically its Human Sorcerer 10 / Incantatrix 10, has base attack of +20, full spellcasting, tons of metamagic feats.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
Also, you can't win the attrition war between DM monsters and your cheesy PC's... he can always make tougher monsters and throw more of them at you, but you still only have one PC. 
point was not to win any attrition war with the dm but to make a point to the dm - while I appreciate the build ideas presented so far - I personally was looking for a little more cheese- for example ( races of the dragon p 4 -106,107) Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype - then the Dragonblood sorcerer and cleric substitution levels are exploitable - stuff like that without going as far as something like PUN-PUN. the Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 build looks interesting but it has a class dip at spellsword and that level could goto paladin but as it sits the paladin is also a class dip - under 3 levels is considered a dip as the DM will disallow it. the Human Sorcerer 10 / Incantatrix 10 does not quite cover the idea but comes close - Keep the Ideas coming
Nezkrul
First Post
You are dismissing my idea without seeing the build, that literally does everything you just asked us to give you a suggestion to be able to do? So, what kind of help are you looking for then?
You are dismissing my idea without seeing the build
, (Magic of Faerun variant, p. 31) Incantatrix
no weapon or armor proficiency
gains spells in sorcerer class - but is now limited to the abjuration school and must have a forbidden schoo
(phb, p. 51) Sorcerer
Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield.
they cast just fine
Things the character should be able to do Cast if needed- yes this build casts great, Disable traps if needed- to an extent it does but not well, Melee combat if needed- again very poor at doing this. ( My statement of
does not quite cover the idea but comes close ) is reasonable and I did not dismiss the idea without seeing build - just what was presented was Human Sorcerer 10 / Incantatrix 10 ***<<< the Human Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist of (insert good deity of magic that also happens to sponsor paladins) 8>>> build was considered and would need to be modified slightly
, (Magic of Faerun variant, p. 31) Incantatrix
no weapon or armor proficiency
gains spells in sorcerer class - but is now limited to the abjuration school and must have a forbidden schoo
(phb, p. 51) Sorcerer
Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield.
they cast just fine
Things the character should be able to do Cast if needed- yes this build casts great, Disable traps if needed- to an extent it does but not well, Melee combat if needed- again very poor at doing this. ( My statement of
does not quite cover the idea but comes close ) is reasonable and I did not dismiss the idea without seeing build - just what was presented was Human Sorcerer 10 / Incantatrix 10 ***<<< the Human Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist of (insert good deity of magic that also happens to sponsor paladins) 8>>> build was considered and would need to be modified slightly
Which of the lines does Pun-Pun cross that makes it unusable? (I mean, obviously he does, but which particular rules would you like to avoid having stretched.)
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