Help! I need a rules-lite super hero RPG

[BASHMAN]

That's fantastic. Sold.

Well, I just checked and Basic Action Super Heroes: Ultimate Edition is now available as a Print + PDF bundle on the Indie Press Revolution website. $25 dollars gets you a printed book and pdf (essentially, we're throwing in the pdf for free with your printed copy).

If your FLGS does orders with IPR, you may be able to order it through them as well.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

I've been perusing Mutants & Masterminds, but I think there's too much going on there for me to bother with. I just left 3E for 4E D&D and I'm not thrilled about going back to the standard d20 system and all of its crunchy numbers for a supers game. But the system can't be Marvel Super Heroes either, which I played in high school and which is essentially one chart and a couple d10s. That's a little too rules-lite for me.

Ideally my super hero game would be based on something like true20, but any fast-paced, rules-lite system could work, with the following caveats. One, it needs to feel like choices made during character creation are mechanically meaningful while being completely customizable. Two, the system needs to be designed such that story is never sacrificed at the expense of rules lawyering or number crunching (I'm looking at you, 3E prestige classes). Three, when dice are rolled, outcomes need to be variable, fun and fulfilling regardless of success or failure; after a school year of playing Marvel Super Heroes, rolls on the FASRIP chart became repetitive and dull. And, finally, it's a super hero game! The system needs to be equally fulfilling at street level and among the cosmos.

In sum, the system needs to have some gravitas without being overly complex. Anyone know a super hero RPG like that?

Wild Talents. Greatest dice system ever, IMNSHO... You can get the full 2nd edition for 50, or the Essential Edition for 10 plus a free copy of the pdf at www.arcdream.com

My favorite supers game of all time. It's not overly crunchy at all, you can design any power you can think of without the messy number crunchy math excercises that Hero and MnM make you do. It's versatile, combat is fast, can be gritty at times, and its point-based so no classes to dink around with.

Great game.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

Given how much you obviously desire this, we've decided that leaving you alone is greater torture.

Enjoy!

Bring them on, I hate MnM as a supers game, one of the most boring games of all time for me... and I've tried it, 1st and 2nd editions, I just can't stand it. 1st edition was way better than 2nd, I'll say that much about it. MnM is probably one of my least favorite rpgs of all time.

And I love supers games, they are my favorite genre. Give me Hero System, wild Talents, BASH, DC Heroes, d6 Powers, Truth and Justice, FASERIP Marvel, Silver Age Sentinels d20/Tri-Stat, Heroes Unlimited was even way better than MnM.

I have my Force Field of fan retaliation around my apartment to ward off any upset MnM fans

 

[Elric]

I have my Force Field of fan retaliation around my apartment to ward off any upset MnM fans

De gustibus non est disputandum (there's no accounting for taste )

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

De gustibus non est disputandum (there's no accounting for taste )

lmao that's so funny omg we gotta love it don't we

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

I just can't stand it. 1st edition was way better than 2nd.....

This is an intriguing statement to one who has never experienced 1st edition and who has mostly heard about it a few times on people liked the change and has read the conversion document and thinks the changes made for better balance. Care to elaborate?

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

De gustibus non est disputandum (there's no accounting for taste )

lmao that's so funny omg we gotta love it don't we

In some cases taste may just be based on what you believe you can get away with. I use M&M because I know people are likely enough to have it that if I recruit for a game somewhere I'll get players. Seeing the systems with less rules (like BASH) I'd rather use them, except I'd rather have a guarantee then comfort.

In other cases you can learn to put up with a system's excentricities. People say that's what they do with HERO's math. For me I've learned to play RPGs without rules, so GM fiat cowers before my mighty acceptance of arbitrary happenings.

 

[ValhallaGH]

What am I doing wrong? I want to like M&M, but it seems very rule intense on both sides of the screen.

From the sound of your post you're saying "No" too much.
Elric's reply is good and should be very helpful.


More than most RPGs, superhero games require a social contract. Everyone has to agree on the genre, the types of characters, and to play a character that fits.

Once you get that agreement, most of the rest of it will fall into place. And the GM will be able to say "Yes" most of the time.


Regarding Hero Points: They are extremely powerful. I've actually limited Luck to 1, maximum, forcing my players to rely upon role-play awarded Hero Points to use them. As such, I can be generous while still having foes that can be meaningfully threatening (to better fit the tone of my campaign).
Heroic Feat has been the least game-breaking option. The occasional Improved Critical just makes battles shorter. The Recovery Check option has probably been the one that has most screwed up my fun (and is the main reason I don't allow multiple Luck feats). I'll also note that the Power Stunt is an effect of Extra Effort, not hero points, making it available to any character, regardless of how many Hero Points they may have. Bonus, the fatigue imposes a real cost that makes my players reluctant to use it.
And, finally, anything the players attempt must get GM approval. So, there's always the GM test, no matter what.

Regarding Mimic and Nemesis: both of these powers require a ton of work on the player's side. Any single use effectively rewrites entire sections of the character sheet. As such, I've strongly advised all my players to stay away from them, for their own fun and enjoyment.
I already stat up super-villain enemies fully, when I'm not using existing ones from the setting. As such, telling them what's available (and the rank it's at) is no stretch for me.
Using those enemies is just as much work for me as for the players. As such, I stay away from them for my own ease and enjoyment; I could run one, and probably will sometime soon, but mimics are too ill-defined to have a good theme and plot hooks. Also, a Mimic is only as powerful as what he's mimicking; if the only thing around is a geriatric security guard then he's not much of a threat.


Good luck.

 

[Sadrik]

In sum, the system needs to have some gravitas without being overly complex. Anyone know a super hero RPG like that?

Savage Worlds and the new Supers Companion will be your best bet. If you are looking for a twisty campaign setting grab Necessary Evil.

 

[Elric]

I'll also note that the Power Stunt is an effect of Extra Effort, not hero points, making it available to any character, regardless of how many Hero Points they may have. Bonus, the fatigue imposes a real cost that makes my players reluctant to use it.

The Heroic Feat option can give you a power feat, and Alternate Power is a power feat. So there are two ways to gain a Power Stunt. Note that if you weren't planning to use Extra Effort in a round, gaining a Power Stunt through it has the slight advantage that you don't suffer the fatigue until a round later, which you can then avoid with a hero point, while with the Heroic feat function you lose the HP right away.

Regarding Mimic and Nemesis: both of these powers require a ton of work on the player's side. Any single use effectively rewrites entire sections of the character sheet. As such, I've strongly advised all my players to stay away from them, for their own fun and enjoyment.

Nemesis is a particular pain in the neck as a GM because you have to come up with what powers the character would gain for each villain; at Nemesis that gives 25 pp, for example, you'll probably have to pre-stat this because it's too hard to come up with on the spot. So I definitely recommend avoiding Nemesis.

I already stat up super-villain enemies fully, when I'm not using existing ones from the setting. As such, telling them what's available (and the rank it's at) is no stretch for me.

A good thing to remember when statting up villains is that for NPCs, how many power points they cost doesn't matter. Steve Kenson addresses this in Ultimate Power (pg 206):

HOW MANY POINTS FOR THAT MASTERMIND? Even if you prefer to rein-in players with a limited budget of power points for creating their heroes, there’s something to keep in mind when coming up with your own villains and non-player characters: it doesn’t matter how many points they cost! That may seem like an incredibly obvious statement to some, but it’s easy to get caught up in the process of designing characters, taking and spending that imaginary budget like a kind of shopping spree. Now, if building characters from scratch and making them balance is your idea of a good time, more power to you. Mutants & Masterminds offers you the tools to build to your heart’s delight.

On the other hand, some beleaguered Gamemasters find they don’t have the kind of free time they once did, and creating legions of super- villains from scratch and adding up their points costs, checking and re-checking figures, is more trouble than it’s worth. For those of you in that category, embrace the freedom that is available to you by ignoring point-costs when it comes to your characters. Presumably, you’re building them with an eye towards a particular power level anyway in order to challenge your players, so just do that and don’t worry about how much it all costs in the end.