Help! I'm a Paladin and my goddess is dead

[Celebrim]

Recently, however, she has been having a crisis of faith.

You know, I've always found the idea of 'faith' being important to gods who dole out supernatural powers on a daily basis to be rather funny. So long as the power stays on, how can you possibly have a crisis of faith?

She's had several nightmares which indicate that her initial vision of Sune was tampered with and that the vision may have been from another goddess and not Sune at all!

Sounds like a nightmare. I would assume your Paladin is in touch with your local church. You might want to have a doctrinal meeting with a local clergyman and compare notes. I'd only get worried if it turned out the rituals you've been doing all these years were heretical. As long as you are following orthodox rituals and calling on Sune, then I'd assume that you'd always been worshipping Sune.

My character hoped to clarify these nightmares by embarking on another vision quest. Instead, she had a jarring vision showing evil gods and their followers murdering countless deities including Sune!

Is the power still flowing? If it is, why worry? If the power stops flowing, you don't have a crisis of faith. You have a crisis of a tangible form.

I'm currently at a loss for what to do.

Why do anything?

The goddess my Paladin has followed faithfully for years may be dead and the divine powers she has been receiving may be granted by another deity.

Wait a minute? If the initial vision was from another goddess all along, then it might be nice for whatever goddess you've been following for faithfully for all these years to actually reveal herself, but the way the story sounds is that either a) its a false vision, in which case no worries, or b) you've never been a follower of Sune but it hasn't really made a difference.

My question to you all is: what do I do now?

Why do you have to do anything? Let's say Sune is dead/captured/incapacitated. Can you do anything about it? (unless you're 30th+ level the answer is probably no). Let's say all these years you've been worshiping some other deity. Have you been doing things that Sune would have disapproved of? If the answer is 'no', then what's the difference? Let's say this other diety doesn't want to reveal herself. What gives you - a mere mortal - the right to go probing into the affairs of the gods anyway, especially considering that so far you've not said one thing that indicates that this goddess is making you do things you wouldn't wanted to do anyway. Let's say on the other hand that it's a false vision? How will doing anything that gives it credibility help you out?

Again, in a world with actively involved gods, there are no crisis of faith because faith is not required to believe in the gods (well at least not faith of any significant degree).

Does my character continue to worship a goddess who may no longer exist?

Is it still working for you?

Should she try and find out who is really giving her the visions and worship that deity?

Sounds to me like you aren't having a crisis of faith, but a crisis of hubris. If whoever is behind your spell power isn't Sune, but someone else, and that person hasn't wanted to reveal this to you, then its a real act of hubris to act like you know better than your patron and start demanding that the deity reveal herself.

Would switching deities cause a loss of her Paladin abilities?

Generally speaking, yes it would. But if 'Sune' turns out not to be 'Sune' but say someone named 'Aphrodite', then switching from 'Sune' to 'Aphrodite' isn't really switching. But if 'Sune' is 'Aphrodite' and she doesn't want to tell you, you are being terrribly nosy to worry about the dieties private affairs.

Imagine the situation from a mortal perspective. You're a common soldier. You take orders from 'El Cid'. One day you here are rumor that 'El Cid' is dead, and you notice that the handwriting on the letters is a little different than before. Still, the orders you recieve are exactly those that you'd expect to recieve from El Cid. You've got no reason to believe that anything you are being asked to do betray's El Cid's cause. Do you ignore the orders and go off on some personal quest to find out if El Cid is alive? Or do you carry out your orders and wait for higher ups to deal with matters like this because you know you're just a lowly private. Worst thing that could happen is that you end up causing panic in the army, or end up being a spy for the enemy, because El Cid really is dead and the forces of good are in trouble. If you need to know, then you'll be informed. In the mean time, do your duty.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Continue to be true to your Code and do Good. Continue to have Faith that even if Sune has passed, her Path is worthy of Worship. (Wasn't the FR goddess Waukeen dead for a while but still worshipped?)

Make it your Duty to learn the truth of your visions. They may be a Warning. If so, your goddess may need your help. If true visions, there may be a divine conspiracy that needs to be exposed.

You are a Child of Light. Stay hard on the path of Righteousness, and set yourself to dragging your hidden enemies into the Light.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Imagine the situation from a mortal perspective. You're a common soldier.

A paladin isn't a common soldier. She's the Chosen of God.

 

[Celebrim]

A paladin isn't a common soldier. She's the Chosen of God.

Ok, so your special forces, and if high enough rank (level) an officer. But the important part is their rank is still way below that of a diety. While they are certainly trusted servants they are probably not yet in the dieties inner circle considering that your average deity has been around for a few thousand years and has things like Planetars for vassals. Paladins are still operating on a need to know basis and they are still expected to carry out orders. Until the Paladin actually recieves an unlawful order, the Paladin just keeps doing what he's told to do. Nothing about the visions so far suggests a course of action.

Now if the Paladin gets a vision like...

"Just letting you know, this is Sune. I've been captured by Grazz't like the lame FR deity that I am, and this is embarassing but I need assistance escaping from the cultures of a mere arch-fiend and all my usual servants - the legions of Lantern Archons, the armies of Movanic Deva's, the Eladrins, the Kirin, my Planatar chief of staff and so forth are so disgusted with my stupidity that they've all quit and put in resumes with different less ditzy deities. So, I guess I'm stuck turning to ordinary adventures for assistance. I hope you don't mind coming to the abyss and rescuing my cute little butt. In the mean time, ignore any visions you get that don't accord with my teachings in the Book of Love, because we'll I'm not sure whose actually handling my portfolio right now."

...that might suggest a course of action.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Ok, so your special forces, and if high enough rank (level) an officer. But the important part is their rank is still way below that of a diety. While they are certainly trusted servants they are probably not yet in the dieties inner circle considering that your average deity has been around for a few thousand years and has things like Planetars for vassals. Paladins are still operating on a need to know basis and they are still expected to carry out orders. Until the Paladin actually recieves an unlawful order, the Paladin just keeps doing what he's told to do. Nothing about the visions so far suggests a course of action.

I guess you and I simply have a different idea of where a paladin stands, with regards to her god's (or goddess') favor. Consider Darth Vader and Grand Moff Tarkin (the commander of the death star in Star Wars.) Grand Moff Tarkin gave Vader orders all throughout Episode IV. But who would you say had a more intimate relationship with the Emperor? Who do you think the Emperor cared about more?

I view paladins like that. They're a diety's Chosen. That doesn't make them the same as any other cleric or mortal follower. It makes them Chosen of God. Personally Chosen. Intentionally Chosen. Meaningfully Chosen. A paladin's heart embodies the diety's precepts. And if that diety is in trouble, there's no better person to set things to rights.

"Just letting you know, this is Sune. I've been captured by Grazz't like the lame FR deity that I am, and this is embarassing but I need assistance escaping from the cultures of a mere arch-fiend and all my usual servants - the legions of Lantern Archons, the armies of Movanic Deva's, the Eladrins, the Kirin, my Planatar chief of staff and so forth are so disgusted with my stupidity that they've all quit and put in resumes with different less ditzy deities. So, I guess I'm stuck turning to ordinary adventures for assistance. I hope you don't mind coming to the abyss and rescuing my cute little butt. In the mean time, ignore any visions you get that don't accord with my teachings in the Book of Love, because we'll I'm not sure whose actually handling my portfolio right now."

...that might suggest a course of action.

Paladins don't need explicit orders to act. They're Judge, Jury, and Executioner. If a paladin thinks her goddess is in trouble, it's her duty to act on that belief and set things right, not assume that a planetar will take care of things and remain wilfully ignorant unless directly ordered to help.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Find a cleric of Sune who can cast Commune. That will tell you pretty quickly whether or not Sune is dead.

Or even a cleric of a friendly faith (like Lathander or someone similar) and have them ask THEIR god if Sune is still there or not.... that'd probably be better than finding a cleric of your same faith if this is the issue of her demise. You may have to pay a price for this service but it should clear matters up.

 

[Tharian]

Are you sure it's not a vision of possible things to come?

 

[boredgremlin]

Ok, so your special forces, and if high enough rank (level) an officer. But the important part is their rank is still way below that of a diety. While they are certainly trusted servants they are probably not yet in the dieties inner circle considering that your average deity has been around for a few thousand years and has things like Planetars for vassals. Paladins are still operating on a need to know basis and they are still expected to carry out orders. Until the Paladin actually recieves an unlawful order, the Paladin just keeps doing what he's told to do. Nothing about the visions so far suggests a course of action.

Now if the Paladin gets a vision like...

"Just letting you know, this is Sune. I've been captured by Grazz't like the lame FR deity that I am, and this is embarassing but I need assistance escaping from the cultures of a mere arch-fiend and all my usual servants - the legions of Lantern Archons, the armies of Movanic Deva's, the Eladrins, the Kirin, my Planatar chief of staff and so forth are so disgusted with my stupidity that they've all quit and put in resumes with different less ditzy deities. So, I guess I'm stuck turning to ordinary adventures for assistance. I hope you don't mind coming to the abyss and rescuing my cute little butt. In the mean time, ignore any visions you get that don't accord with my teachings in the Book of Love, because we'll I'm not sure whose actually handling my portfolio right now."

...that might suggest a course of action.

Lol this was hilarious. And about sums up how i feel about most FR dieties. I mean really, if your high level you have a decent shot of kicking half thier butts. Or tricking them into doing something stupid. Take this as proof she isnt worth worshipping and move into the Ur-priest prestige class and kill them all. Make yourself the overgod of the realms. Maybe you'll actually be halfway competent. That setting could use a god with a brain.

On a slightly more serious note. Its sounds like your DM is setting up a big quest. Keep the faith but start investigating.

 

[Nightfall]

I'd like to point out that Wakeen wasn't known for any celestial help AND Graz'zt, at the time, kept her whereabout WELL hidden. Not to mention back in 2nd edition, he along with the other fiends, were considered Gods.



It's not that I like Graz'zt but I respect his Archfiend status.

 

[Sejs]

Don't change religeons. Don't jump ship to worship some other deity. Remain steadfast in your devotion to your goddess.

Keep the faith.

I would seek council from your church as to the nature of these visions you're having. Someone more knowledgeable in the magical arts may be able to provide some insight into your situation; just like it's always been, if you don't know, ask someone who does. If you break your leg you don't just set it yourself and assume everything's fine - you go to a doctor. If you're having dark visions you don't just give it another go to induce them and assume everything's on the up-and-up - you go see a priest.

But above all, keep the faith. Nobody wants a wishy-washy paladin.