Help make my DM see the light....

[Rune]

The problem is,that 3 of the 7 players agree with him,so we are split down the middle.

My "Group" of players has presented our problem. He basicly told us that he can't please everyone.

Your DM is being a ****. Plain and simple. The MAJORITY of his players are not having fun and all he can say is that he can't please everyone? I hope he enjoys running the game for those 3 players, because the rest of you should respect yourselves a little more and walk.

Seriously.

 

[Regdar]

Re: Re: Bah, kill them in their sleep

You always crack me up Regdar

Regdar only says how it is

Regdar also has other advice, tell them "If I wanted to play this crap, I would play rolemaster!"

 

[Corinth]

...I think it all comes down to the DM's experience system.He refuses to use group experience,he only gives experience on what you kill (or mostly kill)...

This is your problem. Your DM misread the chapter regarding how to aware experience points. You don't get XP for killing monsters, but rather you get them for overcoming challenges. This includes overcoming traps, social encounters where violence is the worst possible option to employ, hostile environments--yes, you can get XP for nagivating a ship through a nasty storm--and solving any other problem put before the PCs. The CR of the problem is the measure of how much of the party's total resources (hp, spells, gear, etc.) it takes to overcome the challenge, with CR=Average Party Level=~20% of party's resources.

Point this out to your DM. Look it up in the DMG and show it to him, and then point him to the WotC boards and to the FAQ if he still acts like he needs a clue. The crew at the WotC boards will school him right quick in how it's done, and he'll fix your problem with your game in the process.

 

[Humanophile]

I still think the underhanded approach is the best. Powergame like you've never powergamed before. Let the three players who liked the old way get left in the dust, steal their kills, and show them firsthand that their DM's rule sucks hideously.

When everyone on your side of the screen is back on your side, talk with them all, form a coalition against the DM, and tell him to back off his MU* inspired rules back to what the DM has in mind. If he refuses to listen, you'll have that many players on your side when you do walk and start a more reasonable game.

 

[tonym]

Slowly raises hand...

I implemented the "dealer of death gets all the XP" house-rule myself during my 2nd Edition AD&D campaign. For around a year, no less. I began using the rule as a way of making sure that characters who took zero risks were not going to advance at nearly the same rate as those who regularly risked their lives in combat (seemed important at the time).

The system worked, too. But it worked TOO well. For the most part, the MUs, Clerics and Thieves could hope to gain XP from a monster only 'after' all the Fighter-types had already been killed--which was pretty ghoulish.

To fix the system, I complicated it. I began awarding XPs for casting each and any spell, and for successfully using Thieving Skills--amongst many others XP awards. This seemed cool, at first. More spells were being cast, etc. But it soon became clear that the Fighter-types still retained a significant XP-advantage over time.

So, despite all the helpful rules added to the "dealer of death get's all the XP" system, I eventually abandoned it.

Here's a list of my reasons:

...because I was spending too much time making notes about every lock that was picked, spell that was cast, etc.

...because it was too much work for me to write adventures in which every class had the opportunity to advance at the same rate

...because of a particularly ridiculous situation in which a character got all the XPs for killing a huge dinosaur, and all he did the whole protracted battle was throw one measley shuriken when the dinosaur seemed on the brink of death

...and because it began to seem a little unsettling to me that whenever a monster was on the brink of death, all the PCs would swarm it like a school of pirahna. Heck, even the frail MU would rush-in to whack at it with his staff!

If your DM is trying to make sure that heroic PCs get more XPs than PCs who play it safe in his campaign, then perhaps he could divide XPs evenly, THEN award bonus XPs somehow?

BTW, when anybody complained that a homerule sucked, I always dropped the rule or modified it, which helped keep things fun for everybody.



Tony

 

[Pielorinho]

Hmm. On the one hand, house rules don't make the baby Jesus cry. If your DM wants to run the game a certain way, it's ultimately his ball of wax; the best you can do is try to convince him that it's not as fun as he thinks it is.

On the other hand, this is a particularly silly house rule, in my opinion, for two reasons:
1) It really limits the types of characters that are playable, particularly limiting the playability of healers; and
2) It encourages very non-heroic behavior: the party of adventurers, rather than cooperating to work together, are encouraged by this system to compete for the killing blow.

When I played Warhammer Dungeonquest several years ago, we all quickly picked up on this second point: if you were fighting a big nasty enemy, it was sometimes a good idea to skip a turn. If you took your turn, you wouldn't kill the enemy, but you would beat them down to few enough HP that another player could kill the enemy; on the other hand, if you waited, then the other player would beat them down enough so that next turn, you could strike the killing blow. Once we realized that, the game became even less fun.

Rather than tell the DM he's stupid, however, why not talk with him about the mechanics and the effects of this rule? It discourages teamwork, discourages healers and buffers, and encourages people to fight less efficiently than they could.

If he's still recalcitrant, try this sneaky method:
1) Suggest that XP be rewarded by HP of damage inflicted: this gets rid of the incentive for fighting inefficiently.
2) If he agrees to do this, next suggest that XP be rewarded for HP of damage healed: this gets rid of the disincentive for playing a healer.
3) If he agrees to do this, next suggest that XP be rewarded for miscellaneous tasks (spells cast, locks picked, etc.). This gets rid of the disincentive for playing a buffer.

Eventually, he'll hopefully get sick of the massive recordkeeping. At that point, suggest that to simplify things, all characters get an equal share of XP if they actively participate in the session.

Good luck!
Daniel

 

[Matafuego]

If your DM is trying to make sure that heroic PCs get more XPs than PCs who play it safe in his campaign, then perhaps he could divide XPs evenly, THEN award bonus XPs somehow?

That's exactly what I do. I calculate the total points of experience each player should get and divide it by two. Then I think of all the roleplaying he did and how he played his character. If he was helpful for the other players, if he was helpful with me (yes, it helps) and I give him a score between 10 and 100 that represents the porcentage of the second half he will get. So far it has worked very good and the players aren't complaining (they usually do complain because I like to give XP when they have settled down at a city and not in the middle of adventures, but that's another story).

 

[Cedric]

Don't let me oversimply people's game world...but...

Figure out roughly how fast you want your players to advance...and assign xp accordingly.

Give out some roleplaying bonuses... and combat bonuses. Make the big nights (killed a dragon?) worth more then the small nights (killed a khobold?).

Also...have some nights with very little combat but some serious roleplaying (if that's your thing, if not, hey hack it up, have fun). On the "roleplaying" nights...give out a tad bit more xp then you did for the last serious "combat" night.

Your players will develop a new appreciation for roleplaying.

And the math is easy. There is no math.

Cedric

 

[Pyske]

Re: Re: Re: Bah, kill them in their sleep

My suggestion: help the other 3 players build their next set of crunchy, power-maxed, kill-maxed characters. Then, metagame to make sure that kill XPs are evenly split. (Bob killed the last monster, and I'm ahead in XP too, so Bob will grapple, while I aid another your attack roll.) If the other player faction complains about the lack of "realism", tell them that if they value their "realism" over your fun, but you value your fun over their realism.

[...]Regdar also has other advice, tell them "If I wanted to play this crap, I would play rolemaster!"

Hey, hey, hey, let's not go misrepresenting Rolemaster, now! RM has an experience system for dealing damage. And one for casting miscellaneous spells. And one for moving maneuvers. And one for critical hits! And one for dying. And one for travel. And one for good ideas! And, yes, it's true, there's a kill XP system in there too... but see, that's not the only thing they reward! (Now, if only those weren't 8 separate XP systems...)

. . . . . . . -- Eric

 

[rootbeergnome]

MUNCHIES

It sounds to me like your DM is an ex power-gamer/munchkin that only believed in mindlessly slaughtering everything that moved before he started running his own game. Now dont get me wrong, I enjoy good tooth and nail combat just as much as the next enraged Dwarf, but I also reward xp for Roleplaying. When was the last time the whole table laughed at "You slash the lizard king with your greatsword, he falls into a bloody heap!"? Oh no no no, they wouldnt laugh at that, but when a character is churning out witty words and snappy patter, or just being plain funny by playing in character, then everyone is having a good time. Roleplaying is a great thing! It seems like your DM is definetely discouraging any kind of negotiations with enemies too, if someone manages to negotiate their way out of a horde of slavering ghouls bent on sucking the marrow from the PCs' bones, then you should give them xp even IF they never drew a weapon or blasted something with magical energy!
*sigh* Hack and slash sucks by itself.

-*the jingling of a bell atop a pointy hat as the Rootbeergnome runs away into the night*