Help making a lightning mage!

[Naoki00_]

Hello all, I'm making a character for a campaign starting in a week or two, but I'm having a terrible time figuring out how to actually even build the type of character I want. We're using pathfinder and the SRD wiki for it has nearly everything possible to have I think so sources shouldn't be too much an issue, and while I'd like to stick to straight pathfinder some 3.5 material might be swingable too.

The character concept I first thought of was a 'storm mage', someone who controlled or manipulated the forces of lightning, wind, and sound to defeat foes or even so much as just use the wind to push stuff around and distract people. The problem I'm running into is that the character is meant to primarily be a caster of sorts, but all the casters sans the druid who is of course in a niche of it's own, are so entirely devoted to the idea of "all spells" that picking up just things like lightning bolt and such would run out very fast and not work like hoped, even the stormborn sorceror bloodline was rather underwhelming, only doing something cool maybe once a day, then finally another cool thing at lv 15, way too late for it to seem really worth the wait...I admit I'm not much a 'caster' player, and I like class meat more then just "oh look I can cast a single 4th level spell now!".

I'm asking the people of the forums if I might need to just give up the looking, have already pasted up gold in the wiki, or if there is in fact a way to craft a fun and versitile lightning blasting, storm calling specialist mage. Feel free to ask for more information, since I wasn't sure what might needed providing upfront, and will happily elaborate on anything I missed.

 

[raedmere]

I have a Sylvan Air Elementalist Wizard. I really wanted to focus on flying around and manipulating winds but the spellcasting options are always too limiting to play purely to my character - there's rarely a wind or lightning spell suited to the task at hand. I try to get super creative, but there is almost always something more effective to cast than lightning bolt, for example. Direct damage really isn't the wizard's best use anyways. I do usually have a few air or lighting elementals flying around, they come in handy. I also add non-rule-affecting descriptions to my spells - for instance my teleported comrades are surrounded by an instantaneous whirlwind crackling with electricity; it ends up being more of a roleplaying aspect than a focus on spells and abilities. That's fine with me because that's why I play anyways. Rhadamanthus is quick to anger, quick to forgive, and too hasty in most cases.

Good luck sir!

 

[KazMx]

Well you could roll and Admixture Wordcaster Wizard. It's not common and being a wordcaster player is quite a feat, but it could give you the type of character your aiming for. Also if you multiclass to a air-weather domain cleric.

 

[RangerWickett]

Could you explain your character concept more clearly? I'm not sure what it is you want to do aside from being able to use weather spells (which could be available if you were a cleric with the weather domain [storms subdomain]).

That said, if you're up for 3.5 material (which we might convert to PF in the next year), E.N. Publishing put out Elements of Magic (and its sequel, Lyceian Arcana), which includes a class called the Anima that basically lets you spend a few levels to get 'super powers.' So if you wanted to be able to cast lightning bolts a few times a day, but do no other magic, you could.

The system is a little mechanically heavy if all you want to do is grab one power, because it was designed to completely replace the existing spellcasting system. But if you need any help, just ask.

 

[Starfox]

If you want to mix might and storm magic, I'd go for druid or magus, with cleric and summoner as a secondary option.

As a magus, you are really a melee warrior using magic to get the full potential of melee, with only the occasional area or ranged spell thrown in. Shocking grasp FTW. I've never played a Magus, but it seems to be a lot of work for a character that is not too different from a fighter or ranger. Still, it seems to be the closest match to what you want.

As a druid, you have your spells on one hand and your fighting ability on the other - they don't mix so much. But you can be a great summoner of air elementals and the higher level storm spells offer good control. Perhaps give up the animal companion for the weather domain. But I'd stick with a bird familiar.

An air-themed cleric could work. But clerics remain clerics, with domains only a bit extra on the top - you will feel like an air cleric, not like a stormcaster.

A summoner could work very well if you are content with controlling things indirectly, through your summons.

If you put a very high priority on fighting and just want a touch of air magic, an air-themed ranger might do.

 

[Naoki00_]

I have a Sylvan Air Elementalist Wizard. I really wanted to focus on flying around and manipulating winds but the spellcasting options are always too limiting to play purely to my character - there's rarely a wind or lightning spell suited to the task at hand. I try to get super creative, but there is almost always something more effective to cast than lightning bolt, for example. Direct damage really isn't the wizard's best use anyways. I do usually have a few air or lighting elementals flying around, they come in handy. I also add non-rule-affecting descriptions to my spells - for instance my teleported comrades are surrounded by an instantaneous whirlwind crackling with electricity; it ends up being more of a roleplaying aspect than a focus on spells and abilities. That's fine with me because that's why I play anyways. Rhadamanthus is quick to anger, quick to forgive, and too hasty in most cases.

Good luck sir!

Yeah I've always known the damage isn't as 'useful' as the save or die stuff, which personally I don't like much as those are boring to me lol, I mean come would you rather make a dude just drop dead, or shoot a fist sized bolt of pure plasma through their chest?

Could you explain your character concept more clearly? I'm not sure what it is you want to do aside from being able to use weather spells (which could be available if you were a cleric with the weather domain [storms subdomain]).

That said, if you're up for 3.5 material (which we might convert to PF in the next year), E.N. Publishing put out Elements of Magic (and its sequel, Lyceian Arcana), which includes a class called the Anima that basically lets you spend a few levels to get 'super powers.' So if you wanted to be able to cast lightning bolts a few times a day, but do no other magic, you could.

The system is a little mechanically heavy if all you want to do is grab one power, because it was designed to completely replace the existing spellcasting system. But if you need any help, just ask.

Well i don't think a whole new system would be ok in the DM's eyes, he's looking through the word casting stuff as is lol, as for the concept I'm trying to go for a specialist mage, someone who's devoted their entire skill and time into mastering the forces of weather, particularly lightning. I hate how you always get stuck with "I'm a sorceror, but I have a few fire spells in addition to the same spells as other sorcerors and I can do cool fire things 1/day, so i'm a pyromancer!", spells feel like a crutch because thats all the class gets, no interesting class powers that actually really amount to making the class feel...well interesting or unique. (this is the class itself mind you, proper roleplay can make anyone cool and interesting, even if the class mechanics aren't, but I don't like playing cool guys with boring moves >.>) The magus idea is a possibility but the idea was less a dude trying to swing something, I would imagine someone thats devoted so much time would just shoot lightning at people as his 'basic' move, like it was second nature, things like the stormborn bloodline but not SO sparse and hardly worth the wait, like getting an interesting power a 9th that...once, and then aaaaall the way to 15th, you get another!..once

 

[Naoki00_]

If you want to mix might and storm magic, I'd go for druid or magus, with cleric and summoner as a secondary option.

As a magus, you are really a melee warrior using magic to get the full potential of melee, with only the occasional area or ranged spell thrown in. Shocking grasp FTW. I've never played a Magus, but it seems to be a lot of work for a character that is not too different from a fighter or ranger. Still, it seems to be the closest match to what you want.

As a druid, you have your spells on one hand and your fighting ability on the other - they don't mix so much. But you can be a great summoner of air elementals and the higher level storm spells offer good control. Perhaps give up the animal companion for the weather domain. But I'd stick with a bird familiar.

An air-themed cleric could work. But clerics remain clerics, with domains only a bit extra on the top - you will feel like an air cleric, not like a stormcaster.

A summoner could work very well if you are content with controlling things indirectly, through your summons.

If you put a very high priority on fighting and just want a touch of air magic, an air-themed ranger might do.

if it ends up just being impossible to make an actual specialist, I might end up needing to go druid, since their one of the only casters that isn't boring in the class features and can DO things with them, as for Summoner the DM's banned it because of a personal bias toward a stupidly broken one our friend made once

 

[paradox42]

Yeah I've always known the damage isn't as 'useful' as the save or die stuff, which personally I don't like much as those are boring to me lol, I mean come would you rather make a dude just drop dead, or shoot a fist sized bolt of pure plasma through their chest?

That's not remotely what most people who make the comment about direct-damage not being a good option mean. What it means is, magic isn't only about destroying enemies- and the spells that are designed solely to destroy enemies are usually bad options compared to other things. Put it this way: which would you rather do, put a fist-sized bolt of pure plasma through the chest of a couple of creatures that were silly enough to stand in a line for you, or fly up out of the reach of all those idiots bashing each other with metal sticks on the ground so you can consider how to screw with them next? Would you rather give an orc a joy-buzzer powerful enough to actually hurt him and knock him on his butt for a few seconds, or make a huge spiderweb that traps that orc and all his friends in place so your fighter buddy can turn them into pincushions with his longbow without interference?

Usually, the best spell options aren't purely combative, they're the utility-and-control spells like Black Tentacles or Wall of Stone, or the mobility and information spells like the famous pair Scrying and Teleport.

I hate how you always get stuck with "I'm a sorceror, but I have a few fire spells in addition to the same spells as other sorcerors and I can do cool fire things 1/day, so i'm a pyromancer!",

This comment makes me wonder how many Sorcerers you've actually seen in play- Sorcerers are very limited in the number of spells they can know; even a 20th-level Sorcerer only knows five spells of 1st level (not counting the Bloodline spell), though the class list he can pick those five from contains over 50 once you include the books besides Core like APG and Ultimate Magic. If every Sorcerer you've seen always picks the same five spells over and over again, then that's something to do with the group you play with, not with the class. There are lots of options.

spells feel like a crutch because thats all the class gets, no interesting class powers that actually really amount to making the class feel...well interesting or unique. (this is the class itself mind you, proper roleplay can make anyone cool and interesting, even if the class mechanics aren't, but I don't like playing cool guys with boring moves >.>) The magus idea is a possibility but the idea was less a dude trying to swing something, I would imagine someone thats devoted so much time would just shoot lightning at people as his 'basic' move, like it was second nature, things like the stormborn bloodline but not SO sparse and hardly worth the wait, like getting an interesting power a 9th that...once, and then aaaaall the way to 15th, you get another!..once

If you don't consider spells a class feature, or are bored by having them, then you really aren't looking to play a caster at all; spells are the ultimate 'class meat' as you put it above. Spells are more versatile and open-ended than any other possible class feature in Pathfinder, unless you include Psionics from Dreamscarred Press (and even if you do, psionic powers are really just reskinned spells on a spell-points system rather than vancian spell-slot mechanics).

In other words, it's looking to me like your real problem is an internal one; what's blocking you is You. You've apparently always dismissed spells as "not being a class feature" because they don't show up directly in the class table like Favored Enemy or Smite Evil, and so you've never actually taken a good hard look at what they can do or be. There's a very good reason pure-caster classes get few to no class features besides spells, in PF.

 

[Naoki00_]

That's not remotely what most people who make the comment about direct-damage not being a good option mean. What it means is, magic isn't only about destroying enemies- and the spells that are designed solely to destroy enemies are usually bad options compared to other things. Put it this way: which would you rather do, put a fist-sized bolt of pure plasma through the chest of a couple of creatures that were silly enough to stand in a line for you, or fly up out of the reach of all those idiots bashing each other with metal sticks on the ground so you can consider how to screw with them next? Would you rather give an orc a joy-buzzer powerful enough to actually hurt him and knock him on his butt for a few seconds, or make a huge spiderweb that traps that orc and all his friends in place so your fighter buddy can turn them into pincushions with his longbow without interference?

Usually, the best spell options aren't purely combative, they're the utility-and-control spells like Black Tentacles or Wall of Stone, or the mobility and information spells like the famous pair Scrying and Teleport.


This comment makes me wonder how many Sorcerers you've actually seen in play- Sorcerers are very limited in the number of spells they can know; even a 20th-level Sorcerer only knows five spells of 1st level (not counting the Bloodline spell), though the class list he can pick those five from contains over 50 once you include the books besides Core like APG and Ultimate Magic. If every Sorcerer you've seen always picks the same five spells over and over again, then that's something to do with the group you play with, not with the class. There are lots of options.


If you don't consider spells a class feature, or are bored by having them, then you really aren't looking to play a caster at all; spells are the ultimate 'class meat' as you put it above. Spells are more versatile and open-ended than any other possible class feature in Pathfinder, unless you include Psionics from Dreamscarred Press (and even if you do, psionic powers are really just reskinned spells on a spell-points system rather than vancian spell-slot mechanics).

In other words, it's looking to me like your real problem is an internal one; what's blocking you is You. You've apparently always dismissed spells as "not being a class feature" because they don't show up directly in the class table like Favored Enemy or Smite Evil, and so you've never actually taken a good hard look at what they can do or be. There's a very good reason pure-caster classes get few to no class features besides spells, in PF.

To the first point, I'd actually much rather blast them lol. I might fly around WHILE blasting them, but I've never liked indirect approaches much, sure subterfuge and all is cool, but but ALL magic people fly, thats a given. and ANY wizard that wants utility is gonna pick web at some point even if it doesn't fit into a theme because it's BETTER then the shocking stuff. I know those are all 'better' then damage but their very..bleh I suppose. I don't like the magic user always being that jerk messing around in the back pissing off the enemies or just solving every out of combat problem, I like them to actually have done what people do, study a craft that is specific. if the wizard is all about spiders or caves, or learned from drow i would expect webbing to be everywhere, some tough, some flammable, some sticky, maybe even elastic or what have you, I suppose I do fall pray to a personal bias in that any character should at least be able to handle themselves without teammates, if only to GET to their teammates, and just making things always stop or be blocked is less fun then turning them in to crispy bacon.

On the second point I've seen around 12 sorcerors, I think 4 times someone played a wizard, and 3 druids, in this group alone, most of us optimize things and use 'the best' answers possible at any given level, so the spells tend to always be mostly the same until a weird encounter comes along that needs a scroll being pulled out or spells switched around after they scryed, fortold, whatever, what we were likely to fight in the morning, so yes it is a lot about the group I'll say, but it's kinda hard to argue that someone would ever take something like Icicle dagger or Ki arrow over Mage armor if given the shot.

and finally, the fact that they are the ultimate 'meat' of things is partly me issue to begin with, and I know the very reason why it is that way, spells are the ultimate in versatility and the ultimate in power scaling, nothing in the game is better then casting them because their SO good and able to do SO many things...and this just isn't what I'm looking for, but have hardly any other option to look at. I may be somewhat internal, but I don't want just some guy who will eclipse every other class in power at level ten and can do anything physically possible, I want to create someone that better then any generic mage in their field, like a pyromancer should be way better at fire then his normal cousin, more limited sure, but if a wizard made a wall of rock a normal fireball couldn't get through, I'd expect a real Pyromancer to blow the thing down because he just gets more bang for his buck. Honestly I'd be fine with no caster ever getting anything higher then what are 6th level spells, or lower even at like 4th level, but do them more often and getting to do things like make customizable choices and more defined roles in both mechanics and roleplay...all of that though isn't exactly on topic and I'm rambling.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

So, what's the problem with being a sorcerer and choosing spells that fit your concept? You don't get that many spells anyway, so it shouldn't be too hard. Also, nothing is preventing you from taking spells that don't necessary relate to your concept and reimagine them to do so, even if it's just fluff (for example, taking the Shield spell and making it look like a small storm cloud that hovers in front of you). You can also ask your DM if the damage spells you take can do Electricity damage instead.

The stormbound bloodline isn't that bad. The first power lets you up the damage of your melee friends ("let the power of the summer storm flow through you!"). You also have the Elemental (Air) bloodline.

Good luck!