Help me beat my DM :)

[Spatula]

I was under the impression that the various Summon Monster spells did this but that Gate, because it allows much more powerful creatures to step through, did not actually compel them to do something they wouldn't ordinarily do? That is you have to attempt to Gate in a creature from a plane that would actually want to do the thing you wanted done, or at least be willing to bargain to do so.... I could be wrong in 3E on this, as I said, I don't have it in front of me...

Luckily the SRD is online, so you don't need your books.

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

Gate allows you to call and command a single creature with HD up to twice your caster level for up to 1 round/level. It can do other stuff, too, and has a casting time of 1 action. Makes Summon Monster IX kinda worthless, eh?

A dragon of any stripe would have trouble with a few solars. 22 HD, 5 attacks/round with their +5 dancing vorpal swords, cast spells as a 20th level cleric, fire resistance 20, immunity to other energy types except for sonic, 35/+4 DR (and no dragon has better than X/+3 DR), SR 32, wish 1/day, etc. etc.

 

[Mortaneus]

Don't forget to finish things up with a shapechange to turn yourself into a Tarrasque. Unless the dragon's packing a wish, it CAN'T kill you.

 

[Mortaneus]

Hmm....let's try this one:

Rogue 18

32 point buy:
STR 8
DEX 18 (28)
CON 8
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 18 (24)

Feats: Imp Initiative, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)

Skills:
Use Magic Device 21 ranks

Rogue Special Ability: Skill Mastery (UMD)

With all of these, that means that you can automatically hit a DC40 on your UMD roll (10 (skill mastery)+21 ranks+7 CHA+2 skill focus = 40).

According to the description of UMD, that means that you can use a scroll as if you had a caster lvl of 20.

Now, the fun:

Items (440,000 gp):
Cloak of Cha +6
Gloves of Dex +6

368k GP left....

A scroll of Time Stop costs: 17 (clvl)*9(slvl)*25 = 3825 gp

A scroll of horrid wilting at 20th clvl costs: 20 (clvl) * 8 (slvl) * 25 = 4000 gp

Now, just stock up on these with all the remaining money. You can use them automatically. Heck, put them all on one big long sheet of paper. Since, on average, you'll get 3.5 rounds from a time stop, and one of those rounds should be spent casting a time stop, that means you should have 2.5 HWs for every time stop. With your remaining money, that equates to:

2.5 HWs (4k*2.5=10k) + TS (3825gp) = 13,825 GP per 2.5 horrid wiltings.

Meaning, you should pick up 27 time stops and 66 horrid wiltings. You should be able to throw all of the horrid wiltings with that, in a single round.

Now, 20th clvl HW vs. dragon's SR33 (assuming GW gold). 40% chance of success each.

Dragon will make all fort saves.

That's 20d8 each...avg damage 90, half damage 45.

45 dmg*66 spells = 2970 * 40% = 1188 damage on average.


So, rogue goes on +13 init, dragon on +4 at best.

If rogue goes first, which is quite likely, on average the dragon is quite toast.

 

[Labmonkey-XL]

An 18th level Cleric and a 3rd level mage multiclass with the quicken feat...you figure it out ....

 

[Zappo]

As already noted, Gate does compel the creature to do what you say. It doesn't make SM9 useless, because SM9 "summons" the creature and Gate "calls" it. There are a few reasons for which you may want to summon something instead of calling it - for example because a summoned creature likely won't be half as pissed off afterwards as a called one. By calling a monster, you put it at risk of death, with no warning, for nothing.

 

[Nail]

It's back from page 2! Heh.

I guess I'm just not agreein' with the premise: "The dragon has a reeeeeeeally high Int, so he'd just think of counters to all th' stuff you guys have proposed. And all of his wishes would work perfectly as he intends."

Bah-humbug.

• 
  1) Where's the fun in that? A bad guy who really is (near) perfect? Has anybody ever made a book/movie/sit com with that as the premise? I'm reminded of the list of "Top 20 things Bad Guys Should Never Do".
  
  2) How, by all that's holey, would you DM that? Listen in on the player's plans? Fudge yer dice rolls? Let the PC try, and then say, "the dragon counterspells that."?
  
  3) See number 1 and 2 again.
  
  4) Would you give the same concideration to a PC with a 35 Int? 'Cause at 20th level, it is a possibility.
  
  5) Etc.

(Nail tries to stagger back OT)
I think you can't Gate solars in during a Time Stop. The spell description states your spells can't affect others during the spell, and Gate is definately affecting those poor, enslaved, defenceless solars.

That 18th level rogue Idea looks good. Why don't you open up with a Mord's Disjunction before you use all of those Horrid Wiltings.

How about an Arcane Archer with Arrows of Dragon Slaying? Have a spell caster as a cohort?....

Do write up what happen(s/ed).....

 

[Zappo]

I think you can't Gate solars in during a Time Stop. The spell description states your spells can't affect others during the spell, and Gate is definately affecting those poor, enslaved, defenceless solars.

The spell duration would begin as the Time Stop ends. The spell can't affect the solars during the Time Stop, but it will afterwards. Otherwise, Time Stop becomes a reasonably balanced spell, and we don't want that, do we?

 

[Nail]

The spell duration would begin as the Time Stop ends. The spell can't affect the solars during the Time Stop, but it will afterwards. Otherwise, Time Stop becomes a reasonably balanced spell, and we don't want that, do we?

Naw!!!

FWIW, when we've played, we say that spells that affect other creatures directly (like Charm Person, Horrid Wilting, or Gate) don't work, because of the Time Stop spell description wording:

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to the character's attacks and spells;.....

This is probably stretching things a bit, as the next part goes on to say that you can leave spells to take effect....we interprete that to mean effects like fireball, disintegrate, etc, work fine.

But as you say, Why Do That? (shrugs) Balance? (grin)