D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

[Mind of tempest]

The "error" hasn't been eliminated at all. They didn't change the class name, and the name monk ties the class pretty tightly to monasteries as that's the natural use of the word. They didn't get rid of Ki at all, but simply placed a band-aid on it and still kept "Ki"(focusing internal energy).

the point is the failure to correct the error and make it work properly, op wants to hate the class differently.
I hate its failure to be all it should be.

Ninjas and monks do not have anywhere close to everything in common. The monk speed, AC and damage by level increases would fit Ninjas. They both use Ki, I mean focus their internal energy to do stuff. That's where the similarities end, though. Ninjas are focused on hiding, vanishing, and assassinating. They wouldn't have things like the ability to do force damage, step of the wind, deflect energy or body and mind. They would have other abilities in their place. I could see a ninja with something like step of the wind, but that only/also affected their enemies. A ninja might force a victim off of a high wall to fall to his death in that way.

Do you not grasp the concept of a sub-class?
also catching arrows is said to be a legendary ninja ability probably because it is also rooted in some of the same cultural beliefs as those that made the xia of most Chinese martial arts mythic fiction.
same meta physisics which is mostly a potent cocktail of mix dao/tao and Buddhism both faiths which have a becoming more as an element to them.

 

[Mind of tempest]

No you don’t. There are two magical and two non-magical fighters in the PHB. No reason you can’t have magical and non-magical boxers.

what would a boxer class even do?

 

[Maxperson]

Do you not grasp the concept of a sub-class?

I do! Which is why I used main class abilities which ninjas would be forced to have, yet shouldn't have. Do you not grasp the concept of class?

also catching arrows is said to be a legendary ninja ability probably because it is also rooted in some of the same cultural beliefs as those that made the xia of most Chinese martial arts mythic fiction.
same meta physisics which is mostly a potent cocktail of mix dao/tao and Buddhism both faiths which have a becoming more as an element to them.

Er, I didn't mention arrow catching/deflection. I said deflect energy.

 

[Maxperson]

The shadow monk is a ninja. That’s the point of the subclass.

It might be ninjaesque, but the main monk class prevents the PC from being a ninja by forcing the PC to have non-ninja abilities that monks would have.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Clarke’s other law: sufficiently advanced breathing is indistinguishable from magic.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It might be ninjaesque, but the main monk class prevents the PC from being a ninja by forcing the PC to have non-ninja abilities that monks would have.

D&D isn’t a cultural simulator. A Fighter isn’t an exact simulation of a medieval knight either. But it’s close enough for fantasyland.

 

[Maxperson]

D&D isn’t a cultural simulator. A Fighter isn’t an exact simulation of a medieval knight either. But it’s close enough for fantasyland.

Often not, though. 3e was the best at this with it's classes and subclasses. 5e is the worst of the WotC editions at this with it's refusal to make most things that should have a separate class into a separate class, and not enough subclasses.

I would never play a ninja in 5e, because I can't do it in a way that would be enjoyable to me. The monk just does not fit well enough to not be a square peg being forced into a round hole. I won't kludge concepts.

 

[Bedrockgames]

D&D isn’t a cultural simulator. A Fighter isn’t an exact simulation of a medieval knight either. But it’s close enough for fantasyland.

I agree. I don't want a history simulator. But I do think it takes popular tropes like knights as they appear in movies and storybooks. For me it loses something when it makes the classes more broad as result.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I agree. I don't want a history simulator. But I do think it takes popular tropes like knights as they appear in movies and storybooks. For me it loses something when it makes the classes more broad as result.

The classes already are broad, by intention. The fighter covers the farm boy hero, the city watch veteran, and a samurai just as well as a knight.

It’s the players’ job to supply the flavour.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The classes already are broad, by intention. The fighter covers the farm boy hero, the city watch veteran, and a samurai just as well as a knight.

But they still connect to recognizeable tropes. And I think they start failing to work when there is a disconnect there. A standard D&D fighter for instant, doesn't capture the samurai trope or knight in my opinion (paladin captures the knight better, some of the samurai classes they have had have captured the samurai). One thing that is cool about classes in D&D is they bundle up abilities and flavor in a way that resonates. When I pick a barbarian, I am instantly thinking of things like Conan for example. Again keeping in mind we aren't talking about history but tropes in popular culture like samurai movies, kung fu movies, and fantasy or sword and sorcery movies.