D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

a secluded martial arts society where you are taught a mix of martial arts and the esoteric stuff that explains them is close enough concept-wise for most, and the technical terms are how you start a nationalistic war.
And I'd allow a monk with that background in my game. My post, though, showed how strong the connection between monk and monastery is and why. WotC connected them very strongly in 5e with it's writing of the monk classs, and the natural use of the word also connects monks and monasteries. I acknowledged in my post that there is no forced connection, so you can have a monk that is an exception. But in 5e a monk that isn't from a monastery IS an exception.
 

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I doubt they did. My point is just you can retain Ki as a dividing line between monks and other character classes, if you wanted a more universal martial artist (which I think is overly broad and a bad idea but if that is where the class is going), because I think there is a very sound argument that even boxers or wrestlers are still using Ki even if that isn't the language they employ to describe it
Of course a boxer is just the same. There is no need to have separate classes to cover martial arts originating from different real world cultures. One class covers ninjas, pugilists and shaolin warriors just fine. “Monk” isn’t a good name for it, but it’s hard to change anything in D&D without getting a ton of pushback.
 

It’s not ki anymore. It’s focus now. WotC are trying to make the point that it’s not specific to any real world culture, but it’s hard work when players are still locked into ideas that went out several editions ago.
You know what the difference is between orcs and goblins in Middle Earth? Which book they were in. That's it. Orc = goblin and goblin = orc. Ki is just a word for how you focus the energy inside of you. 5.5e making it focusing the energy inside of you didn't get rid of ki. It just Tolkien orc-goblinned it. Ki = focus and focus = ki.
 

And I'd allow a monk with that background in my game. My post, though, showed how strong the connection between monk and monastery is and why. WotC connected them very strongly in 5e with it's writing of the monk classs, and the natural use of the word also connects monks and monasteries. I acknowledged in my post that there is no forced connection, so you can have a monk that is an exception. But in 5e a monk that isn't from a monastery IS an exception.
the connection is found out of error it my point.
it is a copy degeneration of an error.
we are now in 5.5 at the end of the day text and mechanics will change but I want to set it on the right path, I care sufficiently.
Of course a boxer is just the same. There is no need to have separate classes to cover martial arts originating from different real world cultures. One class covers ninjas, pugilists and shaolin warriors just fine. “Monk” isn’t a good name for it, but it’s hard to change anything in D&D without getting a ton of pushback.
there is no need for most types of caster to be separate or for games to exist but both are better served that way so to here.

also, each martial art should be more of a selectable option think like how warlocks work with both their patron and which pack(chain, tomb, blade) but with the option to learn more martial arts like wizards learn spells.
 

Of course a boxer is just the same. There is no need to have separate classes to cover martial arts originating from different real world cultures. One class covers ninjas, pugilists and shaolin warriors just fine. “Monk” isn’t a good name for it, but it’s hard to change anything in D&D without getting a ton of pushback.
But that is so boring. I love martial arts and boxing in real life but for D&D a generic all encompassing martial artist seems less flavorful and interesting than an esoteric monk martial artist. You end up stripping the mysticism and flavor from it and just end up with a grounded class that is mundane or one with abilities that don’t fit boxers and judo practitioners. The reason people like the monk is because if it’s flavor and heightened abilities
 

Of course a boxer is just the same. There is no need to have separate classes to cover martial arts originating from different real world cultures. One class covers ninjas, pugilists and shaolin warriors just fine. “Monk” isn’t a good name for it, but it’s hard to change anything in D&D without getting a ton of pushback.
Ninjas and monks do not have anywhere close to everything in common. The monk speed, AC and damage by level increases would fit Ninjas. They both use Ki, I mean focus their internal energy to do stuff. That's where the similarities end, though. Ninjas are focused on hiding, vanishing, and assassinating. They wouldn't have things like the ability to do force damage, step of the wind, deflect energy or body and mind. They would have other abilities in their place. I could see a ninja with something like step of the wind, but that only/also affected their enemies. A ninja might force a victim off of a high wall to fall to his death in that way.
 


the connection is found out of error it my point.
it is a copy degeneration of an error.
we are now in 5.5 at the end of the day text and mechanics will change but I want to set it on the right path, I care sufficiently.
The "error" hasn't been eliminated at all. They didn't change the class name, and the name monk ties the class pretty tightly to monasteries as that's the natural use of the word. They didn't get rid of Ki at all, but simply placed a band-aid on it and still kept "Ki"(focusing internal energy).
 

“Monk” isn’t a good name for it, but it’s hard to change anything in D&D without getting a ton of pushback.

I do like the name monk. but on the pushback question, I am not pushing back on all the changes to the monk (I am responding to the overall conversation in this thread which has included some allusions to certain changes, but also largely been more about how the monk ought to be improved overall). While I think people pushing back on change they dislike is fair, I am still absorbing the changes as I only got the 2024 PHB a couple of weeks ago and it takes time for me to decide how I fully feel about mechanical changes. If we wanted to have a discussion on the changes to the monks that probably ought to be a separate thread in order to avoid confusion, and we could go over changes point by point, which might be illuminating for those who are still trying to assess the new monk entry
 

Ninjas and monks do not have anywhere close to everything in common. The monk speed, AC and damage by level increases would fit Ninjas. They both use Ki, I mean focus their internal energy to do stuff. That's where the similarities end, though. Ninjas are focused on hiding, vanishing, and assassinating. They wouldn't have things like the ability to do force damage, step of the wind, deflect energy or body and mind. They would have other abilities in their place. I could see a ninja with something like step of the wind, but that only/also affected their enemies. A ninja might force a victim off of a high wall to fall to his death in that way.
The shadow monk is a ninja. That’s the point of the subclass.
 

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