D&D (2024) Help Me Hate Monks (Less Than I Currently Do)

[Mind of tempest]

Bunching people is fine but high level Monks out damage things like metal greatswords.

Major aspect of darksun is crappy materials and monks get around that.

that is not a theme that is an aspect, but if you find good weapons darksun do not just break

 

[Zardnaar]

and the theme is?

Post apocalyptic survival with limited resources (water, metal).

 

[Chaltab]

Interesting... that's the genre but it's not really a theme, IMO. The theme of Dark Sun is oppression. It's not difficult to survive in Dark Sun as long as you're willing to accept the tyranny of the SKs.

It's also worth noting that many martial arts were developed specifically as a way against fighting back against oppressors that didn't allow the commoners to have bespoke weapons. The bo and kama were originally farming implements, for instance. I think Monks fit in as a less outwardly supernatural method of using The Way, as Psions call it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

the issue i have with the monk's abilities is that they're too specific, but it isn't really an issue with the monk themselves per-se but the entire selection of martial classes and that there's too much niche protection in their abilities between each other, i would rather have four/five generic 'archetype bases' for martials: well-rounded, light skirmisher, mighty glacier, glass cannon, skillmonkey, and have the current martials themes scattered amongst them, so you can have the classic mobile monk as the skirmisher, a more boxer inspired one as the mighty glacier, kensei as well-rounded...

 

[GobHag]

For me it depends. Interaction between east and west was very limited pre age of sail. Relative handful of merchants snd ambassadors.

So it's really up to the DM and if their world has the of sail equivalent or portals, airship etc facilitating long distance travel.

Or if Monks are available locally. I've got a tortle one atm in my games because I wasn't running anything specific that would exclude Monks. Eg Darksun would. My fate of Atlantis game (432BC)would probably exclude them

I don't care that it was limited pre Age of Sail, History and 'realism' is a poor jester I trot out for only occasional entertainment in my games.

I just have ninjas and monks in my games if the player wants it, and I'll play one if I want to in a ruleset that gives me the choice.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Up to a point. Just because it's available in China doesn't mean it's available in Europe.

Diffusion took a long time pre age of sail.

I was talking about China though. The example was a cowboy with a 6 shooter in a wuxia setting. So my point was you could have that in China or a China analog if it is meant to be something like the late Qing Dynasty (because that goes all the way to 1911).

And sure in earlier periods, diffusion takes time. But you still had the silk road, you still could have one or two stray people from another part of the world. And you did have people travel. There are definitely example of people coming to Song China and earlier periods from great distances. Marco Polo may have been an official in the court of Kublai Khan during the Yuan Dynasty for example. This wuxia film actually gets into that a bit and explores it:
I think in fantasy through a lot more possibilities open up because you have things like portals that might allow better ease of moving goods

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't care that it was limited pre Age of Sail, History and 'realism' is a poor jester I trot out for only occasional entertainment in my games.

I just have ninjas and monks in my games if the player wants it, and I'll play one if I want to in a ruleset that gives me the choice.

This is the other dividing line. Some campaigns are more historically realistic in nature some are more genre heavy or kitchen sink. Personally I've never had trouble with the monk being in a fantasy setting. But I think this does come down to the individual world the GM is running. If I am running Ravenloft for example, there are classes and races I might find not fitting. If I am running an ancient roman inspired fantasy world, a musketeer might feel pretty out of place. So I think it is fair if a GM wants some world fidelity around this stuff

 

[Zardnaar]

I was talking about China though. The example was a cowboy with a 6 shooter in a wuxia setting. So my point was you could have that in China or a China analog if it is meant to be something like the late Qing Dynasty (because that goes all the way to 1911).

And sure in earlier periods, diffusion takes time. But you still had the silk road, you still could have one or two stray people from another part of the world. And you did have people travel. There are definitely example of people coming to Song China and earlier periods from great distances. Marco Polo may have been an official in the court of Kublai Khan during the Yuan Dynasty for example. This wuxia film actually gets into that a bit and explores it:
I think in fantasy through a lot more possibilities open up because you have things like portals that might allow better ease of moving goods

Cowboy in China is fibe if it's late 19th century type setting.
. If you're doing a Wuxia type setting vanning ones far enough or might not even exist in tbe rules.

I've got two games. Ones basically anything goes others 432BC limited tech and limited options you have to take plausible PCs and I provided a list o what's acceptable equipment wise.

Second one you can find better stuff buy you can't start with it. Indirectly buffs exploration as well. No you can't have a long bow but you can find one.

 

[GobHag]

This is the other dividing line. Some campaigns are more historically realistic in nature some are more genre heavy or kitchen sink. Personally I've never had trouble with the monk being in a fantasy setting. But I think this does come down to the individual world the GM is running. If I am running Ravenloft for example, there are classes and races I might find not fitting. If I am running an ancient roman inspired fantasy world, a musketeer might feel pretty out of place. So I think it is fair if a GM wants some world fidelity around this stuff

Funnily enough, Ravenloft's premise basically allows non-fitting ancestries/classes--remember, you're not from Ravenloft you're forcibly transported into it by an evil mist, which means of course you're Aztecian inspired Lizardman now has to confront pitchfork wielding villagers from transylvania/salem.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Funnily enough, Ravenloft's premise basically allows non-fitting ancestries/classes--remember, you're not from Ravenloft you're forcibly transported into it by an evil mist, which means of course you're Aztecian inspired Lizardman now has to confront pitchfork wielding villagers from transylvania/salem.

That is true but Ravenloft also has tone so I generally try to make sure that isn’t disrupted