Help me help my group like WFRP

I love me some WFRP2!

It's funny, the gaming group I've got now sort of got together back in college and the first time we ever played a game together it was WFRP. So we've kinda come full circle. We finished up our first WFRP2 campaign just before Christmas and now I'm back in the GM chair starting tonight to run my first full blown WFRP2 campaign. I'm totally psyched about it!

The thing about WFRP is that it is similar enough to D&D in terms of mechanics for the players to pick up fairly quickly. But they can't let that fool them into thinking it's exactly the same. And you as the GM especially can't fall into that mindset. As a real quick example, three Goblins are something that even a first level party in D&D is going to brush aside fairly easily. Six Goblins are enough to show some concern over. Ten Goblins are a pretty tough challenge but probably doable.

In WFRP, three Goblins are a worthy challenge to a starting group. Six Goblins could easily TPK them and ten Goblins they had better RUN!

You'll fairly rapidly get the hang of what constitutes a good combat encounter for your group. And that's another thing: It's going to vary more from group to group in WFRP than in D&D. The classes in D&D have the underlying assumption that, no matter what, you'll be at least somewhat effective in combat. This is much less true in WFRP. Yes, the Mercenary in the party is going to do just fine in Melee. The Halfling Scribe is NOT.

As a result, you need to pay close attention to the roleplaying encounters/puzzle solving aspects of the game. If you read through the published adventures very much you'll notice a trend that they're heavy on the mystery and corruption themes. This gives the less combat oriented party members a chance to use their skills at perception, sneaking, knowlege and reading obscure languages.

And having things focused less on combat can also be a good thing if you want your PC's to survive for long too. The WFRP combat system can be DEADLY. The thing that makes it so deadly (in my opinion) is that it is subject to very easy reversals of fortune. Because 1 in 10 hits results in an "Ulrick's Fury" (kinda like a crit in D&D) you can easily have a situation where that beefy warrior type character is suddenly down to his last couple Wounds. The characters effective "hit points" do not rise in nearly the same fashion as in D&D so the challenges can escallate much more gradually than in D&D.

Another thing that rises VERY gradually compared to D&D is loot. Some of the starting careers begin with some hilariously lean belongings (gotta love the "cart and 3 sacks" that the Bone Picker starts with!). But this is a great feature of the system in my opinion. When was the last time your D&D group was thrilled about finding a simple chain shirt? And finding ANYTHING magical at all in WFRP is a red-letter day.

All this stuff I've typed so far is more general comparison between systems and pointing out a few potential pitfalls for the starting GM. You were asking about adventures and there I can't offer a whole lot of help. I'm more of a homebrew guy and in fact I'm basically chucking the whole "Old World" setting for my campaign by placing it in a fantasy version of the Caribbean for a Pirate themed game. However I have read the adventure included in the book and I think it makes for a good kickoff/intro game.

I don't know how hard it is going to be to sell your players on the game. If you think it's going to be tough then I'd recommend that you have them create characters first and then use what you know about them to tailor any adventure (whether purchased, downloaded or homebrewed) to their particular skills and tendencies. That will help ensure that even the Rat Catcher and Charcoal Burner PC's are able to contribute in a meaningful way.

That brings me to a quick final point about House Rules. I tend to like the group to be a little more balanced than the random career generation can sometimes lead to. If you've got a Noble, a Marine, an Apprentice Wizard and a Camp Follower as your starting PC's then the Camp Follower might feel a little useless (especially in combat). What the GM in our last campaign did was to cull out all the more "glamourous" and combat focused careers from the list and have the PC's randomly roll from the more "peasantlike" leftovers. That insured that we'd all start from humble beginnings and work our way up to being heroes. It was great fun and I've retained that practice in my current campaign.

I wish you luck with what I feel is a very fun system. Feel free to respond or e-mail me with any other questions. I'm always happy to talk about WFRP.
 

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First, make sure to tell them straight out how the game mechanics work. (and also make sure you have a good grasp of the mechanics yourself) The rules do not make it easy to succeed on anything that you actually have to roll for.

Most notable among those are rolls to avoid getting hit, which means that, as grim and gritty the WHFRP background fiction tends to be, even that tends to paint a rose-colored view compared to the lethalilty of actual combat. Its one of those systems where the last thing you want to get into is a "fair" fight.
 

I just wrapped a thirteen months WFRP2 campaign and it was a blast. I lost one player on the way, exactly the one who enjoy power playing -- although, curiously he dislikes D&D -- as he thought the characters were too weak to his taste. Warhammer is very different from D&D. Combat is fun but not as tactical oriented. Additionally, magic is much less common and the setting suggest treason and mischief at every corner. As such, I would recommend you to try out some mystery oriented adventures. There is a compilation available, Plundered Vaults that includes a updated version of a classic scenario called Rough night at the Three Feathers, which is the best written scenario I read, shame I did not have time to play it.
 

mmu1 said:
Most notable among those are rolls to avoid getting hit, which means that, as grim and gritty the WHFRP background fiction tends to be, even that tends to paint a rose-colored view compared to the lethalilty of actual combat. Its one of those systems where the last thing you want to get into is a "fair" fight.

That's an interesting take. When I ran a one-shot WFRP game one of the guys who played said that he felt the system was a little too "Whiffy" where it seemed hard to hit anybody. My personal view may be a bit skewed by the character I played for the majority of last campaign (he was a Dwarf with a decent Weapon Skill) but he usually didn't get that hurt unless he was against heavy odds or just got very unlucky.

By about the time he was into his second career (Shieldbreaker) he had a WS of about 50. He wore Chain armor (3 AP) and had a Toughness of 4 that would soon be 5. If he's fighting an Orc with a 35 WS then it looks like this:

First, the Orc has to swing and hit him. He's only got a 35% chance normally. If he wants to All Out Attack then he can get up to a 55 but then he's got no Parry (and we're about to see how important that is). Let's say the Orc has a Hand Weapon and Shield and doesn't want to give up his free Parry. So he'll Aim and Attack. Aim gives him a +10% so he's up to 45%. He still hits me less than half the time.

When he DOES hit me, I'm going to Parry. I've got a WS of 50 but my Shield has the Defensive quality so that gives me a 60% chance of Parrying his attack. Those are relatively good odds. But still, that 60% is not going to stop every hit.

So he hits me. I am not looking at an Orc's stats right now but I think they have a Strength of 4. So he rolls a d10 and adds 4. Let's say he rolls average and gets a 6 so I've got 10 damage coming my way. With a T4 and 3 points of Armor, I'm knocking that down by 7 and so he hits me for 3 points. I don't recall exactly but I think I had about 12 or 13 Wounds at that point so losing 3 of them hurts but I can withstand a few of those before I'm in real danger of dying. But also consider that 30% of the time (on a roll of 1-3 on his d10 for damage) he's not going ot hurt me at all. If I upgrade to Plate Armor and bump my Toughness to 5, he's got to roll a 7 or higher to even hurt me at all.

The other factor that is going to skew things in my favor is Fortune Points. When I try and Parry that shot coming from the Orc and I fail, I may decide that I'd like to re-roll that and spend a Fortune Point. Then the odds of me rolling under 60% at least once in two tries are a lot better.

Obviously this may be regarded as a somewhat extreme example because not every character is going to be a Dwarf (with good Toughness and a high enough Weapon Skill to Parry well) wearing decent armor. But I maintain that the odds of you getting hit in combat by the average combatant and actually taking damage from it are probably lower in general than a similar character in D&D has.
 

Rel said:
That's an interesting take. When I ran a one-shot WFRP game one of the guys who played said that he felt the system was a little too "Whiffy" where it seemed hard to hit anybody. My personal view may be a bit skewed by the character I played for the majority of last campaign (he was a Dwarf with a decent Weapon Skill) but he usually didn't get that hurt unless he was against heavy odds or just got very unlucky.

Well, that's a character in his second career, with a very high weapon skill, and some rather expensive (IIRC) armor.

And that's fighting just one average orc. That actually highlights another issue with the game - you don't want to go up against multiple enemies if you can help it at all, but the world is swarming with hordes of orcs, goblins, beastmen, cultists... Even things like the short fiction piece at the start of the newest edition of the book don't really jive with the mechanics of the system.
 

mmu1 said:
Well, that's a character in his second career, with a very high weapon skill, and some rather expensive (IIRC) armor.

And that's fighting just one average orc. That actually highlights another issue with the game - you don't want to go up against multiple enemies if you can help it at all, but the world is swarming with hordes of orcs, goblins, beastmen, cultists... Even things like the short fiction piece at the start of the newest edition of the book don't really jive with the mechanics of the system.

A fair point about the armor and Weapon Skill. Like I said, I was a bit biased given the character. I'm actually having to examine this very carefully because I'm starting up a new campaign tonight and NONE of the PC's are very good in melee combat plus they will be wearing little to no armor. I can't pit them against the kind of stuff that Kraglok could withstand or they'll be cut to ribbons!

You are most certainly correct about the "DON'T GET OUTNUMBERED!" thing. We did a lot of our fighting in narrow underground tunnels against larger groups of Goblins, Orcs, Skaven, Undead, etc. Maintaining the integrity of the front line was utterly critical because if there was a gap in the line then the bad guys came pouring through and you got surrounded. Eventually I would say that we were spending as many Fortune Points to prevent being Maneuvered as we were to prevent being hit!
 

I'd be frank with them what the game is like: gritty, dark fantasy with a potentially very high lethality rate in combat and very little treasure acquisition and powerups. Those who look at the cover or are familiar with the Fantasy Battle game might get a different impression.

You might intrigue some of them by spelling out that it is different than D&D... but if you don't, perhaps it's not meant to be. Some people just don't like WHFRP style. I know I don't.
 

The first adventure of the adventure trilogy they started with - sadly, I cannot recall the name right now - is fair at best. Which, is really a shame because it was written by one of the old 1st edition guys. I suggest playing through the key parts of it to get to the next two, which are quite good.

Through the Drakwald is the introduction to the campaign. I've run it several times and although it has been different each time, it is always fun.
 

My favorite quote about wfrp-

"Warhammer FRP isn't like D&D, and the monsters don't automatically
carry gold and magic items. D&D is about quests for glory and riches;
WFRP pretends to be the same, but in fact is about the PCs' day-to-day
fight for survival in a universe that hates them. If you don't finish
each adventure worse off than when you started it, your GM is doing
something wrong. If you find yourself in a WFRP adventure and not
knee-deep in :):):):) then duck, because another load is past due."
- James Wallis (ex-publisher of wfrp)
 

You need to make the players understand the difference between "low-fantasy" and "high-fantasy".

D&D is high fantasy - wizards throw fireballs that incinerate crowds, knights ride noble steeds and rescue fairy maidens. Rangers wade throw armies of foes with their dual scimitars dripping gore. It's big and over-the top.

WFRP is very much low fantasy. It's really what I like to call "stick & potato" adventuring.
You have this potato see, and everyone wants your potato. All you have to defend your potato is a stick. God forbid you break your stick, because the only way to get another is to kill someone and take theirs. And by all that is holy, be sure you don't actually eat your potato, because the only way to get another is to kill someone and take theirs!

WFRP, and all stick and potato adventuring is about struggle, suffering and misery.
The great thing is, struggle, suffering and misery is really what players most often remeber about the game.
The trick is to make the struggle, suffering and misery worth pushing through. It's worth using your stick to kill other stick wielders, because without that next potato, you're dead.

WFRP is a great game. I playtested the new edition, and we've been in a new campaign for almost two years now. It's dark, moody, brooding, and the PC's are always outclassed, outnumbered, and under the gun - and that's the whole point!
 

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