Help me price some magic items

[smetzger]

1. I'd like some boots that boost my speed, but I don't want to spend
the money on Boots of Striding and Springing. So what about this?
Boots of Expeditious Retreat, usable 2x/day, command word activated.
Cost: 1 x 1 x 1,800 / (5/2) = 720gp.
These would give me a +30ft enhancement bonus to speed for 1 minute, 2
times per day, with a standard action.

2. I have a +1 Cloak of Resistance. I'd like to get it enhanced, but
don't have the cash for the full upgrade. So, I was thinking I could get
it upgraded for Reflex saves only. It costs 1,000 for a +1 Cloak, and
4,000 for a +2 cloak. Would it cost 1,000 to get +1 Reflex added to the
cloak?

Oh yeah, I'm the DM. These descriptions are lifted directly from an email from one of my players.

Thanks,
*:> Scott

p.s. 3.5 please

 

[green slime]

1. I'd like some boots that boost my speed, but I don't want to spend the money on Boots of Striding and Springing. So what about this?
Boots of Expeditious Retreat, usable 2x/day, command word activated.
Cost: 1 x 1 x 1,800 / (5/2) = 720gp.
These would give me a +30ft enhancement bonus to speed for 1 minute, 2 times per day, with a standard action.

No. Most definitely not. This a way to avoid the raised price of a Boots of Striding and Springing.

Look at it this way. Boots of striding and springing use both expeditious retreat and jump.

Thus the cost per 3.5 for those boots of striding and springing should (per the guidelines) be 1*1*2,000 gp + 1*1*2,000 gp *1.5 (for additional effect added to a slotted item item) = 5,000 gp.

And yet the designers have stated that 5,000 gp is too cheap, and placed a price tag of 6,000 gp on these beauties. The fact is, the ability to manuever around the battlefield is highly desirable. Lets face it, the jump ability doesn't mean that much, it is the movement that is the desirable.

Therefore, I suggest to you that the correct price for the slippers suggested by your player cost 2* 1,800 gp *1 (CL) *1 (SL) *2 charges / 5 = 1,440 gp... Still seems very cheap to me, but I'd probably let it rest there (or round them off 1500 gp and you have a deal!). This would mean that the slippers would cost 3,750 gp with 5 charges per day, which is radically less than the aforementioned boots, for pretty much the same effect. (Movement outside of combat is trivial). In fact in this light I might even push the price upward towards 2,000 gp. Thus the 5 charges/day slippers would cost 5,000 gp. They really are nearly as good.

I detest the manipulations of some players to get around limitations in wonderous items but inventing some new item, that basically does the same thing, at less than half the price.

2. I have a +1 Cloak of Resistance. I'd like to get it enhanced, but don't have the cash for the full upgrade. So, I was thinking I could get it upgraded for Reflex saves only. It costs 1,000 for a +1 Cloak, and 4,000 for a +2 cloak. Would it cost 1,000 to get +1 Reflex added to the cloak?

While this appears reasonable on the surface, some more thought needs to go into this one. Ostensibly, one buys resistance items to shore up weak points in ones defense.

Would you allow a character to purchase a cloak of reflex resistance +1 (+1 to reflex saves only) for 333 gp? Or a cloak of reflex resistance +5 (+5 to reflex saves only) for 8,333 gp? This seems cheap.

Personally I think I'd go with half the difference, because I'm a miser like that:
A cloak of reflex resistance +1 would cost 500 gp
A startling cloak of resistance +1, +2 vs Reflex would cost 2,500 gp (thus requiring 1,500 gp for the upgrade), then 750 gp per part upgrade.

I know this sounds sort of backwards, but the idea is it is more desirable to shore up the holes, than get a blanket defense, when you are on a budget. If it is more desirable, than the pricing of the item should reflect that fact.

 

[der_kluge]

Dude, you owe it to yourself to pick up Mystic Eye Games' Artificer's Handbook.

You'll never, ever have questions about how much a magic item costs, ever again.

In fact, after reading it, you're probably going to just toss the DMG magic item creation system out the window.

 

[Rozman]

Any idea how they came up with some of the prices in the DMG?

Specifically Ring of Invisibility and Potions of Enlarge.

Neither follows their own formula:

Potion of Enlarge: 1st level spell x 1st level caster x 50 gp (use-activated single-use item) = 50 gp, yet they charge 250 gp

Ring of Invisbility: 2nd level spell x 3rd level caster x 2,000 (use-activated item) = 12,000 gp, and they charge 20,000 gp (which in my opinion is still under-priced

I think both should obviously cost more than the base price due to their in-game effects, but they don't seem to have any guidelines for it.

Just checking if there is an official/ semi-official word on it out there.

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Potion of Enlarge: 1st level spell x 1st level caster x 50 gp (use-activated single-use item) = 50 gp, yet they charge 250 gp

isn't the potion effective at CL 5 (ie +50%)?

TS

 

[jaults]

    Hiya... I'm the player in question. I'd like to make a few comments on your calculations there, green slime. Maybe the books and the SRD are not in agreement, but the SRD does not really support some of your assertions.

From the 3.5 SRD:

Boots of Striding and Springing: These boots increase the wearer’s base land speed by 10 feet. In addition to this striding
ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5
competence bonus on Jump checks.
Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Craft Wondrous Item, longstrider, creator must have 5 ranks in the Jump skill; Price 5,500 gp;
Weight 1 lb.

    Soooo... let's take that apart. The 3.5 Boots of Springing and Striding (BoS&S) don't use Expeditious Retreat anymore. Instead, they use a new spell, Longstrider (Drd 1, Rgr 1, Travel 1). It lasts for 1hr/level and gives a +10ft enhancement bonus to your land speed only. They also do not use the Jump spell, but instead give a +5 bonus to jump checks. So, according to what you rightly pointed out are only guidelines, the cost breaks down like this:

Jump checks
    Skill bonus (competence): Bonus squared x 100 gp. A +5 competence bonus to Jump checks costs 2,500gp.

Longstrider
    Spell effect, Continuous: CL * SL * 2,000gp
    This is for spells with a duration of 1hr/level, which, it so happens, is what we have here. Because this is the less costly of two different abilities, this cost if multiplied by 1.5, for a subtotal of 3,500g. When added to the 2,000gp for the jump checks, that gives us a grand total of 5,500gp. If you'll note, that is what the SRD lists for the value of these boots.

    A few differences to note here, since I don't want to be seen as someone who "manipulates" things to "get around limitations in wonderous [sic] items but [sic] inventing some new item, that basically does the same thing, at less than half the price." BoS&S are always on. I want something useable twice a day for one minute. I don't mind taking a standard action to turn them on. BoS&S add to jump checks. Skill checks have become much more valuable in 3.5. I don't want that skill bonus.

    Incidentally, if the BoS&S still used Expeditious Retreat and Jump, they would be far more expensive. Something like 4,000 for Expeditious Retreat, plus 6,000 for Jump...

    As for the upgraded Cloak of Resistance, I didn't have any guidelines to follow. However, the prices you cite as examples (333gp for +1 to one save type and 8,333gp for +5 to one save type) don't really sound outrageous to me. Since your reasoning seems predicated on the concept of "shoring up holes" being more valuable than a blanket defense, I have a question... Would you price the cloak the same way if you knew my character was a Rogue10 with a 20 Dex and a Reflex save of +12? What if he isn't "shoring up a hole" but is instead boosting an already impressive stat... Does that make a difference? Just wondering...

Thanks for your time.
Jason

 

[jaults]

Dude, you owe it to yourself to pick up Mystic Eye Games' Artificer's Handbook.

You'll never, ever have questions about how much a magic item costs, ever again.

In fact, after reading it, you're probably going to just toss the DMG magic item creation system out the window.

    Why don't you show off the system in your book, die_kluge, and price out these items for us using it?

Jason

 

[Zad]

As for the cloak, I'd say no, you can't pay 1/3rd. That's too easy

If it's bonus squared times 1000 for resistance bonus, I'd go with bonus squared *500 for a bonus to a single save. In short you get the price break if you get them all. Otherwise characters will just bolster their weak save and not their strong ones and save money.

But I need my afternoon nap and I'm having a hard time figuring out the math on this one. It might come out the same for this example but be different generally

 

[Nail]

isn't the potion effective at CL 5 (ie +50%)?

TS

This is a "cut and paste" error. In 3.0e, the enlarge spell had to be at 5th level to be at all effective, as it was +10% per level, max +50%. In 3.5e, of course, the spell no longer works that way. Ooops. This is errata material, folks.

 

[Nail]

Any idea how they came up with some of the prices in the DMG?

.....

Ring of Invisbility: 2nd level spell x 3rd level caster x 2,000 (use-activated item) = 12,000 gp, and they charge 20,000 gp (which in my opinion is still under-priced

You missed the "duration adjustment" to the price. From the SRD 3.5e:

If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

The difference between the DMG price and the formula price(12,000gp x 2 (duration 1 min/level) = 24,000gp) is probably because the ring is not "always" on. That is, once you attack, you become visible again, until you use a standard action to turn the ring on.

(That's my guess, anyway.)