D&D 5E Help me understand & find the fun in OC/neo-trad play...

[Baron Opal II]

OC = Original Character, in case anyone else was wondering.

 

[bloodtide]

To you is the referee pre-planning a story a definitional part of OC/neo-trad? Other posters seem to disagree with that.

Well, a pre planned story is more Triad.

But the "whos" story is a fair point. Neo Triad, is the story is Everyone's...all the players. Even more so the idea is to have "no story" and just let it emerge out of thin air.

IWhen I’ve played with OC/neo-trad players they’ve seemingly all wanted the former (“I just win”) without the latter (obstacles, setbacks, etc).

I run into this often too. The vast majority of players don't want a challenge or a struggle...they just want the "win". At best they want that cinematic style. "Oh no The Death Star will blow up the Rebel Planet in five minutes....gosh, sure hope the Rebel's can blow up the Death Star first....."

What I'm gathering from the thread is that it seems to be a difference in scale. It almost sounds like

OSR->Trad->OC/neo-trad

are on a continuum of PC power, PC longevity, scale of the threats, and the amount the emergent story of the game centers the PCs. All these seem to increase as you go across those styles.

It's hard to put those into boxes or give them labels.

A lot of DMs like low power...low magic games, and they can be of any type or style. And DMs like me love high power and high magic games, but I'm only the middle Triad. And PC longevity can depend on a lot. Lots of DMs refuse to do random character death, and some few of us do. And scale can mean anything.

Only your last sentence is entirely correct, and you make it sound so ... dirty; how dare the players have goals, and how dare we play with those goals as the focus. I am the only DM, though I invite input from the players--primarily, but not exclusively, before the campaign starts. While the character's stories are the main thrust of the game, there's some trading-off and balancing between them, so no, no given player character's personal individual story is always front and center.

I use so few words and fewer adjectives and my writing still "sounds" some way. Ah the curse of being a wordsmith.

Backstory is a good place to start. The default neo triad game the DM wants each player to have a detailed backstory to connect the character to the game world. The DM hopes that having each player have a backstory woven into the events of the game will make the players pay attention and give them motivation and make them engage in the game. The DM can just add something from a backstory and hope the player will jump right on it, as they "have to" as it's part of their character's story. So here, Backstory is a tool to promote good game play and role playing.

Triad: The default triad game DM wants a backstory to explain the character in detail. Who is the character, why do they think what they think and who are they? This is the deep role playing character analysis. The DM wants a backstory to be the blueprint for deep role playing of the character. But the DM does not really want hooks, threads or open ended things. The DM plans to use little or none of any backstory. The players will pay attention, have motivation to play and engage in game play...because they want too. The DM can add things from the backstory for the player to role play off as they deeply role play their character. So here the Backstory just adds to the deep role playing.

Neo Triad is Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, or Neo from the Matrix.
Triad is Captain America(MCU), Jhon Mclaine(Die Hard), or the typical Clint Eastwood character from the 70/80, with Dirty Harry and Philo Betto standing out.

The focus is simple enough. The default neo triad DM wants the focus to be on the players goals. They want the game to be what the players want, and as much as the players want.

The default triad game adventure is the focus.

 

[jmartkdr2]

i'd actually think isekai would be notably conterproductive to most attempts at neo-trad play wouldn't it? given that the base premise separates the main character from 99% of what they care about and are connected to by dropping them in a foreign world, and from what i've gathered reading this thread (i came back to this post after i reached the current 8 pages) the primary crux of neo-trad seems to be making stories about the things your character is connected to and invested about.

I was trying to note difference between neotrad and OC, if there is any. OC becomes the hyperbolic extreme. And apparently the only player some dms here can find.

 

[prabe]

I use so few words and fewer adjectives and my writing still "sounds" some way. Ah the curse of being a wordsmith.

You're not one of the posters here I'd call a "wordsmith." Usually clear--which is remarkable on today's Internet--but honestly nothing over-special, writing-wise.

Backstory is a good place to start. The default neo triad game the DM wants each player to have a detailed backstory to connect the character to the game world. The DM hopes that having each player have a backstory woven into the events of the game will make the players pay attention and give them motivation and make them engage in the game. The DM can just add something from a backstory and hope the player will jump right on it, as they "have to" as it's part of their character's story. So here, Backstory is a tool to promote good game play and role playing.

Or, you know, to find out what the players are interested in, subtle-like. I've gotten backstories ranging from a few sentences to 20,000 words, and they're all fine. I'm not doing it in any unjustified "hope" that the players will react with some unmerited vigor or glee; I'm just doing it so I'll have more range of ideas. Same as asking the players to fill in setting details connected to their characters--it's a big world (OK, city) I'm sure the players have thoughts, I see no reason not to use them.

Triad: The default triad game DM wants a backstory to explain the character in detail. Who is the character, why do they think what they think and who are they? This is the deep role playing character analysis. The DM wants a backstory to be the blueprint for deep role playing of the character. But the DM does not really want hooks, threads or open ended things. The DM plans to use little or none of any backstory. The players will pay attention, have motivation to play and engage in game play...because they want too. The DM can add things from the backstory for the player to role play off as they deeply role play their character. So here the Backstory just adds to the deep role playing.

The bit about the GM not caring about the backstories, not caring what the players are interested in, about the characters as anything other than targets for whatever story the GM has--published or self-authored: That sounds right to me. I don't know anyone who really thinks long, involved backstories are some sort of key to roleplaying--they're much more authorial than any sort of actor stance, far as I can tell.

Oddly, the thing that's right also applies to neotrad--the players will pay attention and engage in game play because they want to. (I've fixed your grammo, there, please forgive me, O wordsmith.)

The focus is simple enough. The default neo triad DM wants the focus to be on the players goals. They want the game to be what the players want, and as much as the players want

The default triad game adventure is the focus.

In my neotrad games, the adventures are also the focus--it's just that the adventures are specifically the PC's adventures, they're not there for just any rando that shows up.

 

[niklinna]

I see Chinese organized crime is now an RPG play style....

 

[prabe]

I see Chinese organized crime is now an RPG play style....

But only if they're new to the business, I guess.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Who are these people who keep coming up with categorizations for D&D nerds to judge and insult each other with and how do we make them stop?

 

[Helena Real]

Aren't you just describing story games here? What differences in the overlapping and non-overlapoing sections of a Venn diagram of story games placed beside one of neotrad clearly mark out how these two are different at a glance?

The thing is that, at least in my anecdotal experience, OC/neo-trad players usually do not come from a TTRPG background. Instead, they come from text roleplay on places like deviantART originally, and nowadays on Discord. I participated in one of these recently and it's fascinating how they approach RP from a purely interpretative/experiential perspective. Many of these, the veterans told me, used to be diceless. Nowadays most of them use some dice mechanics, but the systems are so simple that they'd be at most rules-light under our usual definition.

What I am trying to say here is that style of play can be something different from RPG rulebooks/systems/etc. So while OC/neo-trad may be close to story games in design, I'd say that they come from different origins and, as such, it's interesting to recognize them as different variants of a common approach to roleplaying.

 

[prabe]

Who are these people who keep coming up with categorizations for D&D nerds to judge and insult each other with and how do we make them stop?

They're mostly D&D nerds on the Internet.

 

[overgeeked]

Thank you to everyone making positive contributions to the thread. It really does help, even if the ride is a bit...bumpy...at times. And I appreciate the patience.

So, a follow-up question. What are the best practices for setting up and running a neo-trad game?

From the info in the thread so far, I'm assuming some variation of:

Talk to your players, make sure they're on board. Session Zero, lines and veils, stars and wishes, etc.

Get goals and plot hooks from the players, if not backgrounds that can be mined for ideas.

Work with the players to make sure things gel together at least somewhat, there's no major problems or clashes re: theme. Though some internal party conflict is great.

Incorporate all that into prep by making factions, NPCs, situations, potential quests, etc that reflect the players' & PCs' goals.

Wind 'em up, and let 'em go. Emergent play. Play to find out. Poke the PCs in their feels. "Steer" things only in the sense of injecting drama, conflict, tension, obstacles, challenges, consequences, etc.

How close is that? How far off the mark? Some pitfalls to look out for? General advice?