Help my kids make great PCs

[Nifft]

Warblades are even easier at low levels. They don't have many choices and get their maneuvers back all the time

Not in terms of inherent complexity, no. The Warblade has conditions attached to his recovery mechanism; the Swordsage just has to perform a specific action.

With Adaptive Style (which I specify as necessary), it's even easier for a kid to handle: take this action, recover or choose new maneuvers. This is important because otherwise you risk frustration when he knows the right maneuver, but he doesn't have it readied.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zelc]

when it is your very first character you can't screw it! even if it seems totally lame to some min/maxer, its still a very special almost living personality for you. and his every feat, however lame, has a special meaning and flavor too.
mind you, that some of their characters are alrready "screwed" - fighter wants to specialize in melee AND ranged combat simultaneously, enchanter taking a combat casting feat... but that doesn't matter, really.

the thing here is that 12 year old girls will unlikely read through a dozen of books with feats, prestige classes, magic items and other character options. so if you want advanced character for them, you'll have to build them yourself. and would they enjoy predesigned characters (however strong) more than less powerful ones but self-built?

I second this. As to the "you can't do this" problem, just ad-hoc the rules. If doing something cool doesn't confer any benefits to the player (i.e. sliding down the railing instead of just taking the stairs), let them have it without a roll or anything. There's no need to min-max stuff for children .

Let them play what they want to play, and I think they'll have much more fun. Allow them to retrain stuff if they want to try something else.

 

[Darkwolf71]

Wait... you guys can't even let a group of 12 year olds play what they want? "Fighters suck." "Beguiler instead of Wizard!"

Give me a break.

Man, they're a group of KIDS, playing with a DM that will taylor the game to their needs. They don't need the most optimized builds out there. It's not like a 10 year old playing in a group of adults.

OP: Look into the shield feats for Jenna. Mostly PHII, I believe.

You really should at least look at the completes. They have a lot of class focused feats that can give everyone a boost.

 

[Nifft]

Wait... you guys can't even let a group of 12 year olds play what they want? "Fighters suck." "Beguiler instead of Wizard!"

Give me a break.

Think of my advice more as, "this class sucks, and she'll have NOTHING TO DO for 2 out of 3 encounter types".

Protecting kids from bad choices is a duty we adults share.

"JUST SAY NO to Fighters!", -- N

 

[Zelc]

Think of my advice more as, "this class sucks, and she'll have NOTHING TO DO for 2 out of 3 encounter types".

Protecting kids from bad choices is a duty we adults share.

"JUST SAY NO to Fighters!", -- N

What? She'll be doing the same attacks over and over (OK, some melee and some ranged) but it's not like she'll be useless, especially since the others aren't exactly optimized either. There are no real bad choices for those kids, except the stuff they don't want to play (honestly, I think I'd be kinda upset if I was a kid and the adult told me "play this") and the characters that are too complicated to play.

 

[Nifft]

What? She'll be doing the same attacks over and over (OK, some melee and some ranged) but it's not like she'll be useless, especially since the others aren't exactly optimized either.

When I said "2 out of 3 encounter types", that means: there are three types of encounters.

Specifically: combat, skill / puzzle, social.

Fighters suck at 2/3 of these, and are merely adequate at the third.

-- N

 

[Zelc]

When I said "2 out of 3 encounter types", that means: there are three types of encounters.

Specifically: combat, skill / puzzle, social.

Fighters suck at 2/3 of these, and are merely adequate at the third.

-- N

Well, you have a point. I think the better idea is just to have them RP it out and not worry so much about the dice rolls *shrug*.

 

[Nifft]

Well, you have a point. I think the better idea is just to have them RP it out and not worry so much about the dice rolls *shrug*.

You could do that, but then the kid who actually has some stealth capability and/or social skills on his character sheet is "cheated".

IMHO the best answer is to make them all tolerably good at everything -- and yes, this means NO HEAVY ARMOR because that cuts out stealth and athletics. Let them each be able to participate in all three encounter types, while remaining different.

Cloistered Cleric, Scout, Ranger, Bard, Swordsage, Druid, Rogue, Warlock, Wizard, Psion, Beguiler, Monk: these classes will always be able to participate.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Greenstone]

Wow - didn't expect to generate that much debate!

Thanks everyone all for the input though...

Agree with the Ranger route for Jenna (the player - my daughter - already wants to save/befriend every animal they meet... although before you all shout "DRUID" she is aware of the class... but kept picturing Getafix...)

Will take a look at Beguiler for Layla... sounds on track with what she wants as well.

May have to look at those Complete books for the rogue and cleric... anyone have any specific ideas what I should look at first?

Any thoughts on Spellthief for Kristan? I'm already picking up a bit that he's envious of the cleric and - more often - the wizard, when they cast spells...

 

[roguerouge]

Spellthief's pretty terrible. It's not intuitive: it's central mechanics depend on a complex maneuver that depends on your fellow PCs not squishing the fragile spellcaster before you can steal his spell. Don't go there.

Just to be clear, I've DM'ed this age group and some are capable of creating their own characters out of Core-only, even the 8-year-olds. Make sure that in your eagerness you still remember to give them the option of creating their own characters from scratch.