Help ol' Ashy a bit, will ya? - determining aid for a party

[Ashy]

Ok gang, I've got a party that consists of:

Quela - 10th level femal Nixie paladin: ECL: 10
Vaskesh - 7th level male Lizardfolk ranger: ECL 10
Karma Silverclaw - 5th level female Wemic druid: ECL 13
Oricx - 9th level male water genasi paladin: ECL 10
Jekka Brokentusk - 6/5th level female barbarian/fighter: ECL 10
Dromar - 3/5th level male fey'ri rogue/sor: ECL 8

Known as 'The Misfits', for obvious reasons...

Long story short, they are about to get tangled up in a major battle with some hags, some, slags and lacedons, lots of undead, and some lesser demons. However, they have some support from a pretty powerful Church that many of them (Quela, Oricx, Jekka and Vaskesh) serve to one degree or another. They are asking for healers, crusaders, and clerics. My question is:

How much support should they receive from the church? It is in the church's best interest that they suceede in the fight that is looming...

Thanks!

 

[jonesy]

How much support should they receive from the church? It is in the church's best interest that they suceede in the fight that is looming...

Didn't you just answer your own question? If it's in the churchs' best interest then the church should send everything it can possibly spare.

 

[Eluvan]

Well... if you're talking from a story point of view... what Jonesy said. From a balance point of view... you'd need to detail exactly what kind of encounter difficulty we're talking about here. Could you give an approximate CR for the encounter?

 

[Ashy]

Well, the only problem is that there are certain factions within the church that are for and others that are against, interefering. And we are talking a BIG church - they could likely wipe out all of the monsters if they wanted to, but they assigned the party this task and party it is a test (but even therein there are a lot of inter-church politics involved).

CR? Hurm....Figure about double what the party could handle usually, more or less...

 

[Ashy]

bump for the evening crew...

 

[jonesy]

CR? Hurm....Figure about double what the party could handle usually, more or less...

Well, you could go the easy way and send just enough to even the odds.

Or have them send quite a lot more than is needed and have something unexpected happen to them leaving only enough to even the odds.

Or have them send all too many but then have the factions start fighting each other.

 

[jmichels]

Wow, double the PCs level? That's embarassingly quick TPK territory. Any free help the church can provide will automatically be wasted, and fall into the hands of the enemy, since the PCs are likely to get smashed. So the church would be unlikely to give the party any help beyond selling them some stuff. They might not even do that because the PCs are in a hopeless situation.

What my PC would have a hard time with as a PC is if this church can kill these monsters so easily then why are they using the outclassed PCs to do their dirty work. Is it a test of how quickly we can be slaughtered? My PC would really start shopping for a diety that isn't willing to sacrifice me and my friends so quickly.

Finally, if you have the church come through and rescue the PC when they are in trouble (or raise their corpses) then it's the church winning and not the PCs. In any case my PC would avoid this church like the plague and would probably be their mortal enemy because of it.

 

[the Lorax]

Offer lots of help, some from allies in the church, some from political rivals.
Make sure that if they bring non-hero types (read:low level leadership lackeys)
that lots of them die.

I wouldn't give them any aid in the form of an NPC greater than 8th level for this.

 

[Ashy]

jmichels, it is not quite as you seem to be taking it. Basically the scenario is this:

the party are the first adventurers to set foot upon a new continent - they were sent there to assist a small town with a small problem, with the church's authority and blessing. Now, after a few weeks of poking around, the PC's have discovered that the problem is anything BUT small, but they are a little low on proof, so the church is having a tough time dedicating ALOT of resources to something that RGHT NOW, they see as possibly, overactive imaginations. After this battle, however, things will be different. The church itself, for the most part, is both good and mighty, but they are not stupid...

What I am looking for is to have the PCs get thoroughly trounced, but just survive. All or most of the help from the church is fodder. Basically, this battle is the first blow in a larger battle, and to make it worse, when all is said and done, it is nothing more than a feint.

Now, back to the original question - how much help should the church give? I'm looking for actual numbers here, like:

50 1st level fighters
25 2nd level clerics
etc....

Thanks!

 

[Runesong42]

Ok gang, I've got a party that consists of:

Quela - 10th level femal Nixie paladin: ECL: 10
Vaskesh - 7th level male Lizardfolk ranger: ECL 10
Karma Silverclaw - 5th level female Wemic druid: ECL 13
Oricx - 9th level male water genasi paladin: ECL 10
Jekka Brokentusk - 6/5th level female barbarian/fighter: ECL 10
Dromar - 3/5th level male fey'ri rogue/sor: ECL 8

How much support [healers, crusaders, and clerics] should they receive from the church? It is in the church's best interest that they suceede in the fight that is looming...

I could take this from several angles. Before the PC's even attempt to challenge such a force, they should follow the 7 P's: "Previous proper planning prevents piss-poor performance". The PC's should have at least some idea of their opposition; where they are located, how many there are, and any possible weaknesses they can exploit.

If the PCs are asking for 'crusaders', it seems to me that mere foot soldiers/warriors can not have any effect on the monsters you have chosen to challenge the PCs. Many of those beasts will require magic weapons to overcome their DR. If the Church has any kind of Champion that they'd be willing to send into the field, then sure, add a supporting NPC or 2. Just remember that NPCs now hog XP, and either you or another PC will have to keep track of him during the onslaught. Heck, all of the PC's are high enough level to attract cohorts (provided you use the Leadership feat, either as is or 'ad hoc' for being their level and making an effort to seek cohorts). Let the PC's bring in 'Da Boyz', make the PC's sweat over gearing them up, and then let the bodies hit the floor.

If they are looking for 'healers', said healers probably would not support the PC's on the front line. At best, I would expect them to stay back at some kind of "base camp" to heal the PC's who flee and Raise those that don't make it.

And Clerics? They fall in between both categories of 'crusader' and 'healer'. I'd say that the Church should "provide" (ie assign cohorts/henchmen/followers - whatever the 3.5 rules call them now) a select number of men and maybe even gear them for the PCs, only to have them return to the Church once their goal is completed. This sounds closest to what the PC's are hoping for.

The battle you propose can't be won by brute force. It should be a battle of attrition, one that can be won by "hit and run" tactics. Perhaps the Church also has a Sage that can help with some key weaknesses of the enemy.

I know this sounds military-ish, but that's how I tend to think when I deal with mass combat in DnD. I learned to think this way in "The Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil", when I accidentally/on purpose made enough noise to summon an entire floor of monsters to our group's position. We made it, barely. If I had done what I had originally planned to do (potion of Invisibility, Move Silently, peek in rooms and take notes), the fight would have been much easier.