Help: Paladin putting group in danger...

[Lela]

Lela, that was awesome.

Very good, a lesson for every young paladin.
Do you mind if I use that inthe education of paladins in my game?

Ego=Ego+10

Thanks! And please feel free to use it to help Paladins everywhere.

Note that I just went back through and edited it quite a bit. Grammar and spelling errors fixed along with some content changes and adjetives. I think it's a lot better than it was. You'll want to use the newer version.

 

[Mark Chance]

Hmm...

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but using the game to teach people lessons is, well, sad. Let the guy play the character how he wants to play the character. If the character gets killed, it gets killed.

My current group is right now finding out the hard way that I, as GM, do not go out of my way to lessen the effects of stupid decisions. Our next game session may well result in something near a total party kill all because of one thoughtless action on the part of the bard.

Ah well. It's just a game, and making up new characters can be fun.

 

[Wee Jas]

Maybe if the paladin had a charge (A younger knight to look after, a damsel in distress to keep out of danger) he would not be so foolhardy. Perhaps a commander who looks upon his "bravery" as recklesness and admonishes him.

Maybe his church raises him each time he dies and keeps losing those levels. I bet he will be much more careful then!

 

[Lela]

Re: Hmm...

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but using the game to teach people lessons is, well, sad. Let the guy play the character how he wants to play the character. If the character gets killed, it gets killed.

My current group is right now finding out the hard way that I, as GM, do not go out of my way to lessen the effects of stupid decisions. Our next game session may well result in something near a total party kill all because of one thoughtless action on the part of the bard.

Ah well. It's just a game, and making up new characters can be fun.

How would you handle the pouting though?

Maybe if the paladin had a charge (A younger knight to look after, a damsel in distress to keep out of danger) he would not be so foolhardy. Perhaps a commander who looks upon his "bravery" as recklesness and admonishes him.

Maybe his church raises him each time he dies and keeps losing those levels. I bet he will be much more careful then!

Don't listen to Wee Jas! He'll have a red dragon taking the Pal down to -100 if you let him have his way.

 

[Bryan Vining]

A novel idea

Well, first and last, I'd try talking with the player. Point out that while being brave is indeed part of being a paladin, dead paladins are not terribly good at fighting evil. There's a time and place for reckless heroism. It's not a bar fight. Think Gandalf in Moria... that's bravery and self-sacrifice with a point to it. Let the player know that you disagree with his/her version of a paladin. Try to come to mutual agreement about how a paladin handles things.

In the end, you will either come to an agreement with the player or he will leave your campaign, either at your request or his prerogative. Take your pick.

 

[Endur]

Its ok to play a Paladin that never flees. In Sword and Fist, they describe an order of Knights called the Knights of the Watch. They never flee from battle.

Now, from a GM perspective, there are multiple ways to handle this. One way is to not send the group against an invincible enemy. An alternative is to have NPCs make it clear to the party that they can't face the enemy unless they attack his weak point (drop the ring in Mount Doom, etc.).

Tom

My latest campaign has been moving along nicely, but as the PCs enter mid-level the paladin has gotten it in his mind that he is invincible. The group's rogue has an enemy from his past, a high level monk who's been looking for him for years. Recently the group gained some noteriety and this drew the monk to the area, the rogue spotted him first, but while he tried to slip out the back way the rest of the team went to talk to the monk.
Obviously a fight ensued. I had hoped that the group would flee when they realized what a powerhouse the monk was. At worst he would kill the rogue, take what was stolen from him and go. When the rest of the group started saying it was time to run, the paladin refused. He said there is no way that a single person, no matter how powerful, can beat 4 people, no matter how weak. When the team said they were going to go anyway, the paladin said he would stay and die. Of course no one felt right about going after that.
In the end the rogue convinced the paladin that he had an idea, so they ran, having maybe 20 hp between them. But the rest of the night the paladin player pouted, professing that because of the aura of courage this is how paladins are supposed to act (personally I think he's got a bad case of Sturm envy).
I want to prove the point that sometimes you have to run, and I know that killing off his PC will come off as hevey handed. Plus he'll be too busy throwing his usual you-killed-my-character tantrum to learn a lesson.
Any advice.

 

[Forrester]

. . . In the end the rogue convinced the paladin that he had an idea, so they ran, having maybe 20 hp between them.

Okay, I'm confused about something. They RAN from the MONK? How exactly did that work?

 

[William Ronald]

I would love to hear how they got away. I mean most upper level monks can probably outrun a paladin in armor even if the monk is wearing cement boots. (Sees hideous image of a monk wearing buckets full of dried cement on his feet running down a knight in shining armor. )

 

[Lela]

So, he's just an insanely brave guy who can't bring himself to run away from a guy he can't run away from?

 

[jdavis]

Man all the good answers are already taken. I'd make sure that he and the rest of the party knows that there is a big difference between Bravery and arrogance, It would depend on who he was a Paladin of but his arrogance in thinking he is undefeatable could be looked poorly apon. For alot of Paladins there is alot more to it than just being a bad ass. THe Paladin in our campaign gives 50% of all treasure he gets to the poor, he normally stops anywhere he can and does good deeds and is generally helpful and overly worried about the weak. He never thinks of him self as being a awe inspiring fighter because he tries to maintain at least some humility, his power comes from his god not him, he is nothing but a vessel for his gods will, he does fall off of this and sometimes he gets caught up in money and power, but only for short periods of time and he always ends up helping people in the end. He has no problem running from a unwinnable fight as he has more important work to do than dying in a meaningless encounter, that is not to say he doesn't always fight hard but he know when it is time to regroup and come up with a better plan. I don't know the exact details of your adventure but fighting to protect a thief doesn't sound noble or heroic at all.

I love the idea of the mentor and the story, I'd also let slip a vieled warning about selfishness and arrogance being things that could cause his god to turn a blind eye to him, risking the life of your friends to feed your own ego is both selfish and arrogant, If he had caused one of the others death it would be on his hands as much as the killers.

I'd take the rest of the players aside and let them know that you are not going to pull any punches just because he gets them in trouble and that if he gets them all killed then thats just how it is, it is a party problem they should figure out a way around it. (One of our party always lures the Paladin away when the rest of the party has to do something he might not agree with, better he not know about it at all.) They can find a roleplaying solution to it if he chooses not to heed any other advice.