EarthsShadow
First Post
I can see this as a situation where the player lacked faith in the DM and felt that he was being screwed by the DM and wanted to make sure the DM was doing it right.
I think each player has a right to know if the DM is being fair, but after he makes his one minute point for his argument the DM should make a further ruling and then go from there. IF the argument persists from the player, then the DM can explain the entire situation, thereby destroying the encounter by telling the player that the bridge is trapped and they are in a druid's area, or not but then the player will still feel he is being screwed. And if the DM tells everything to the player, then the player will play accordingly even though the character would have no clue, thereby destroying the encounter.
I used to be a player once like that, and I ended up destroying an encounter the DM had planned justly and accordingly. I did the same thing this player had done, and not only did the encounter go south but so did the campaign. I did accept the fault being mine after the fact, and I did learn from that experience.
The thing I learned is that the DM does not have to explain himself to the players why he set the DC he set. If he's a fair DM and the DC is 15 points over due to not reading the skill properly, then the DM should be able to admit his mistake and go from there. If the DM has his reasons as to why the DC should be 20 and not 5, he does not have to explain his reasons until after the adventure, and the players should understand that playing characters in a world of magic does alter situations that would otherwise be normal and easy.
I have also been through this as a DM with a player. I had a NPC that was sometimes moving 40 feet a round instead of 30 feet. By his actions the players knew he was not a monk or a barbarian, and he did not cast spells. So they questioned me on this for a half hour, saying I was not playing by the rules and I was cheating them. They couldn't detect anything magical on him so he had no magic items. The players (there were 3) could not get beyond this fact no matter how much I told them that things are not always as they seem. Finally I told them that he was a psionic using the burst power, which increases their speed by 10 feet for the round. They were like, ohhhhhhh, that makes sense, and then played their characters as if they knew he was a psionic when the characters would have no clue. Totally ruined the game for me, and for them because the surprise was lost.
Players need to come to grips and realize that they should not pop open that book unless something truly does not seem right, like a knotted rope hanging against a cliff wall being DC 20 and not 5. That I can understand, but if the DM still goes with the DC 20, then so be it and move on. Players should take things as they come, put themselves into the story and not the numbers, and realize that they are playing make believe characters that do encounter things that we in real life do not, and things are not always as they seem. Put the numbers aside, don't look in the book, and don't argue with the DM for longer than a minute (house rule in my games).
I think each player has a right to know if the DM is being fair, but after he makes his one minute point for his argument the DM should make a further ruling and then go from there. IF the argument persists from the player, then the DM can explain the entire situation, thereby destroying the encounter by telling the player that the bridge is trapped and they are in a druid's area, or not but then the player will still feel he is being screwed. And if the DM tells everything to the player, then the player will play accordingly even though the character would have no clue, thereby destroying the encounter.
I used to be a player once like that, and I ended up destroying an encounter the DM had planned justly and accordingly. I did the same thing this player had done, and not only did the encounter go south but so did the campaign. I did accept the fault being mine after the fact, and I did learn from that experience.
The thing I learned is that the DM does not have to explain himself to the players why he set the DC he set. If he's a fair DM and the DC is 15 points over due to not reading the skill properly, then the DM should be able to admit his mistake and go from there. If the DM has his reasons as to why the DC should be 20 and not 5, he does not have to explain his reasons until after the adventure, and the players should understand that playing characters in a world of magic does alter situations that would otherwise be normal and easy.
I have also been through this as a DM with a player. I had a NPC that was sometimes moving 40 feet a round instead of 30 feet. By his actions the players knew he was not a monk or a barbarian, and he did not cast spells. So they questioned me on this for a half hour, saying I was not playing by the rules and I was cheating them. They couldn't detect anything magical on him so he had no magic items. The players (there were 3) could not get beyond this fact no matter how much I told them that things are not always as they seem. Finally I told them that he was a psionic using the burst power, which increases their speed by 10 feet for the round. They were like, ohhhhhhh, that makes sense, and then played their characters as if they knew he was a psionic when the characters would have no clue. Totally ruined the game for me, and for them because the surprise was lost.
Players need to come to grips and realize that they should not pop open that book unless something truly does not seem right, like a knotted rope hanging against a cliff wall being DC 20 and not 5. That I can understand, but if the DM still goes with the DC 20, then so be it and move on. Players should take things as they come, put themselves into the story and not the numbers, and realize that they are playing make believe characters that do encounter things that we in real life do not, and things are not always as they seem. Put the numbers aside, don't look in the book, and don't argue with the DM for longer than a minute (house rule in my games).
