Help: Realative Spell Power

[Moon-Lancer]

Ok, I know the effectiveness of spell differ from spell to spell, but when the designers of the game made up spell levels, what is their values to eachother.

Example. How many 3rd level spells equal a 4th level spell? how many 2nd level spells equal a 3rd level spell?

Is it a sliding scale or is something simple with value of spell levels relative to spells around it, Like 2 spells of x level, equal 1 spell level stronger then it?

in otherwords is two 4 levels spells equal to a 8th level spell
or is two 7th level spells equal to a 8th level spell?

 

[starwed]

No offense, but that's kind of a meaningless question. Could you maybe make it clearer exactly what you're getting at?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Sorry, I shale try to be more clear.

I want to know the balance of a spell. So let’s say we have a class feature that lets a spell caster break up a 9th level spell into castings of lower level spells. How many spells would that be?

What is the relative power of one spell level to another? Is a level 9 spell twice the power of a level 8 spell? how many level 1 spells equal the casting of a 9th level spell… ect. Or is it just simple adding. If I add a 4th level spell and a 5th level spell, is that equal to a 9th level spell?

I want to know how spell levels relate to each other in terms of power and balance.

 

[llamatron2000]

Looking at archetypal evocation spells, and their damage caps(the easiest way I could think to calculate spell power), it looks like every two levels, the spells get a +5 to their damage caps, with 8th and 9th levels being 'crowning' levels, in which the power rises at an increased rate.

1: 5 dice(burning hands)
3: 10 dice(fireball)
5: 15 dice(cone of cold)
7: 20 dice(d. blast fireball)
8: 25 dice(polar ray)
9: 32 dice(meteor swarm)

This means that level 3 spells are worth exactly two level 1 spells. And that a level 7 is worth two level 3's. This can get really complicated. If you're going to allow the splitting of spell slots, just use a magic point system, and make prepared casters prepare ahead of time. And....now that I've actually done the math, a simple spell point system indeed, -can- be created by assigning a point cost to every spell equal to 1+spell level, and giving the caster points equal to (spell level+1) for each spell slot they get.

That means that a level 20 wizard(before int modifiers and stuff gets 220 spell points. That means that, lets say...if you allowed combining of spell levels, a wizard would get 22 9th level spells if they wanted. Or 110 level 1 spells Wow. That's pretty unbalancing. I'd think that if I gave a wizard the added flexibility of combining and splitting spell slots up as they wish, I'd take away a lot of slots. Because nobody's going to want to put four in each spell level, because 22 spells a day is already a buttload.



Hope this data helps some.

 

[Pyrex]

I want to know the balance of a spell. So let’s say we have a class feature that lets a spell caster break up a 9th level spell into castings of lower level spells. How many spells would that be?

I believe there have been feats published that accomplish this, but I can't remember the source off the top of my head. IIRC, the general gist was as follows:

Breaking Down Slots: Slots break down into spell levels. i.e., if you break down a 9th level slot you can have a 1st + 8th or 4+5th on down to 1st*9.

Combining slots upward: Two slots of level N-1 combine into one level N slot. i.e., two 1st level slots make a 2nd, two 2nd make a 3rd, and so on up to two 8th make a 9th.

This obviously favors breaking down over combining upward, but given that spell-levels aren't linear the extra flexibility is worth the cost.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

It helps little, it shows I way off on my estimate. I guess I should just spill it. I’m trying to make a sorcerer prc that lets one sacrifice spells and break them down into ether higher level spells or lower level spells. It would be sort of like a mode that requires consistent concentration checks, but while in that mode, it could break down say, a level 9 spell into lots of low level spells, or breaking up lots of low level spells to form a high level spell. It can be alittle over powered, as the checks would be very high, and on a failed check, if a 9th level spell is broken into say nine level 1 spells, the spells would be lost. They also would be lost at the end of an encounter, if not expended. Basically this is to make the sorcerer more flexible with how they can use their spells.

And example is if your only 3rd level spell is fireball and your facing a fire elemental, the sorcerer could fizz their third level spells into lower level spells that could be more useful at the time.

I’m not looking for help on a whole system redesign, but perhaps more help in understanding spell level relationships, or perhaps a nice power conversion chart or something. Their must be designers who thought this through when making the spell system in 3.0

I cant use the unearthed arcane spell point system because both that and psionic must use power points to increase the damage of lower level spells.

*edit*

thanks Pyrex. I just now saw your post. I will try to find those feats, but i think what you have typed really will help me out. It seems sound. any insight as to adding up spell levels that are not right next to eachother? would it be three level 7 spells for a level 9 spell then?

 

[starwed]

One trick that helps balance this sort of system is adjusting the CL and save DC's of the spells.

That is, when you combine low level slots to cast a high level spell, it's still a weaker spell than one cast using it's "natural" slot.