Help w/ my cleric character? Please?

[scout989]

Jdvn1- with proper minmaxing I had a lvl 23 fighter who could avoid 2nd two hits from most CR 30-35 monsters. It is possible (at least in 3.0) if you really want to do it.

 

[Quinnman]

Well, we're talking about CR 30's and 40s.

My point still stands... (btw... CR´s of 30 - 50 is hopefully WAY beyond a lvl 17 group)

If you can get your hands on it, buy a Ring of Nine Lives... sweet!

 

[Nail]

AC inconsequential!?!? If a high AC can stop that 18th level fighter from hitting with all of his 4+ attacks doing 20-30 dam per hit, I would say it is definately worth investing in!

Absolutely!

My elven Clr 14 has an AC 40....and frankly, that's not very difficult, nor very expensive. You just have to keep you eye on how bonuses stack. There's a spell in the Book of Exalted Deeds that's nice too....

A typical NPC Ftr 18 will have attacks like: +30/+25/+20/+15 (the DMG NPCs are wussies!). With an AC 40, that means only about 1 hit per round, sans the all-powerful Power Attack. That's a good thing!!!

Consider taking the Travel domain... who needs a 40k ring of freedom when you have 17 rounds of freedom of movement per day? (never get grappled again!)

A common mistake.

The Travel domain does not allow you to automatically resist being grappled; it only allows you to resist magic that impedes movement. Very different.



As Clr suggestions:
Your domain choices are key, especially with the feats from Complete Divine. Pick domains that have good powers (like Luck, Sun, or Magic) and that have good spell lists. Then pick up the divine feats Domain Spontaneity, Divine Metamagic, and Divine Spell Power. The idea is to increase your flexibility and caster level. Need a quickened Heal spell (Div. Meta.:Quicken), followed by a sponanteous Spell Resistance(Dom. Spont.) at +4 Caster Level (Div. Spell Power)? No problem! Let's see the Lich Queen deal with a completely healed Bbn with an SR of 30!!!

For magical equipment, be sure to get a Periapt of Wisdom, a Bead of Karma (from Prayer Beads) and a Phylactery of Undead Turning if you have the wealth, along with the obvious armor, shield, Nat armor, Deflection AC, etc. A Cloak of Resistance is a good idea too.

For the most part, your items should work on your AC, Saves, and Wis bonus.

....BTW: What's your starting wealth?

 

[brehobit]

One thing I don't think anyone mentioned is that the luck domain is mightly helpful on the "save or die" side, especially if your DM tends to tell you your target numbers (which many do.)

At high levels, the most important thing can be getting the drop on someone. Think about ways to help with that....

Being invisible and buffing others can be a really nice plan....

Mark

 

[Joker]

The cleric in one of the games I play in uses a Spell called "Essay Resistance" or something like that. I don't know which book its in, but it is great for reducing a targets SR. It gives the target a major penalty on the save to resist the spell, but if the spell works the targets SR is reduced by 10 or more points, which helps even the Arcane Spell Caster to be more effective.

There are two I think you're thinking about.

Subvert Planar Essence from Complete Divine which (after getting through SR and after a Save Negates) lowers SR and DR by 10.

And Assay Resistance from Complete Arcane which gives the caster +10 on caster level checks against one creature for one round/level.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Keeping a high level cleric alive:
1. Expect Spell Resistance. Assay Resistance (CD, CA), Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, and the orange prism ioun stone are your friends.
2. Buy fortification armor. You can always cast magic vestment on your armor to boost the AC bonus.
3. Buy a resistance item as good as you can afford.
4. Get a luckblade with no wishes. Rerolls are essential because, sooner or later, you will roll a 1. (No wishes isn't essential, it's just much cheaper without them).
5. Unless you're built to be a fighter, don't try to be one. You're much more effective casting Heal on the real fighter after he takes 120 points of damage in round 1 than casting righteous might and divine favor and divine power and then saying "if you're hurt, stand behind me and let me do the beating."
6. Use your spells to buff yourself and your allies. Hero's Feast. Magic Vestment. Greater Magic Weapon. Magic Circle vs. evil (keep the summoned creatures away). Freedom of Movement, etc all have fairly long durations and don't take up slots that are first tier offense by 17th level.
7. Knowledge skills are your friend. Use them to get info about the monsters you're fighting. (The three most useful ones at high levels--Arcana, Planes, and Religion are all on the cleric spell list).
8. There are no p-classes in the Complete X books that make you survive better without sacrificing spellcasting ability. Sacred Exorcist and Radiant Servant are both very good, but neither give you more hit points, AC, or combat ability. The way prestige classes will contribute to your character is to give you more options not to make you a fighter.
9. Find a way to get a constitution boost. You will need it if you want to keep your hit points up.

And, to answer one claim:

Well, at high enough levels, you can't boost your AC high enough to help against high BABs. So some people recommend just not giving effort in the AC department.

There's a big difference between getting hit every time in a full attack action, getting hit every time while power attacking for 5, and getting hit once or twice.

Going from memory, the Ftr 20 that I statted up for the Fighter/PsiWar thread had a full attack of +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 or so for 1d10+23 points per hit. Now, it's easy to look at that and say "I still get hit on a 2, what's the point of my AC 40?"

Well, AC 40 gets hit for an average of 111 points of damage on a full attack without power attacking. But, let's say your AC is 35 instead of 40. Without power attack, you take an average of 137 points of damage. If he power attacks for 5, that goes up to an average of 144 points of damage. If your AC is 30 instead, that's 178 points of damage per full attack with a 5 point power attack (and the number is pretty constant between a 5 and 10 point power attack so it doesn't take much finesse to get good results).

So, losing ten points of AC increases the damage you take by about 55% or so.

The difference is even more dramatic on a sinlge attack. If the fighter has to move to get to you, it's the difference between taking 33 points of damage (optimal power attack for 1 point) and taking 55 points of damage and making a save vs. massive damage (not hard, but you can still roll a 1).

Incidentally, AC 45 (+5 mithral fullplate, 16 dex, rose prism ioun stone, +5 ring, +5 natural, +5 heavy shield, haste or dodge feat) knocks that fighter's full attack to about 72 points per round. At 17th level, that's the difference between "I'm dead next round" and "I can take another round of this before I have to worry too much." And that's a huge difference.

 

[Mistwell]

I'll post the standard way overpowered and broken Cleric build in case you are interested (though I advise against it since it will be boring to be this broken):

You can see as a pretty common build on the WOTC Character Optimization Board of a Human Cleric with a relatively high charisma worshipping the Faerun Pantheon choosing Planning (free extend spell feat) and Undeath (free extra turning feat) as their domains, Divine Metamagic and Persistant Spell feats at first level, and extra turning for most future feats. Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Lesser Vigor all make excellent (AKA Broken) Persistant spells using divine metamagic to power them. Combined with a wooden weapon (like a darkwood morningstar) with Spikes cast on it (lasts pretty much all day), a heavy shield and plate armor with Magic Vestment on each (lasting pretty much all day), and you have everything you need lasting all day long to make you a much better melee fighter than the melee fighter in your party. Magic Item choices include the broken Prayer Beads: Karma Only (to increase the caster level of all of those Persistant spells you cast in the morning), and two rings of spellturning (I think that is what they are called), one of which has Dispel Magic in it, the other with Mort's Disjunction in it (to slow down your DM who will almost certainly send things against you to dispel those massive day-long buffs you have).

 

[Shazman]

Well, a well built cleric can be a terror. At that level, quicken spell is your best friend. You can heal and buff/blast in the same round, or heal and attack in the same round. Buff yourself as much as possible before a fight if you get a chance. Spells like divine power, righteous might, and aspect of the deity(quickened of course) will turn you into and effective combatant. Get the war domain if you can , and pick a deity with a decent weapon. Get power attack, improved initiative, spell penetration, and greater spell penetration. Get items that give you SR and DR, and summon lots of crtitters via summon monster spells to help yourself and your friends out. The thaumatergist prestige class in the DMG is good if you want to focus on summoning things without loosing caster levels.

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

If it isnt too late, go Gasult. A clr/rogue15-17 couldnt be any better.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Have Reciprocal Gyre and Reaving Dispel have any impact on these builds? It certainly seems like it puts a bit of a spike into the "all buffs all the time" warrior-cleric.

I'll post the standard way overpowered and broken Cleric build in case you are interested (though I advise against it since it will be boring to be this broken):

You can see as a pretty common build on the WOTC Character Optimization Board of a Human Cleric with a relatively high charisma worshipping the Faerun Pantheon choosing Planning (free extend spell feat) and Undeath (free extra turning feat) as their domains, Divine Metamagic and Persistant Spell feats at first level, and extra turning for most future feats. Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and Lesser Vigor all make excellent (AKA Broken) Persistant spells using divine metamagic to power them. Combined with a wooden weapon (like a darkwood morningstar) with Spikes cast on it (lasts pretty much all day), a heavy shield and plate armor with Magic Vestment on each (lasting pretty much all day), and you have everything you need lasting all day long to make you a much better melee fighter than the melee fighter in your party. Magic Item choices include the broken Prayer Beads: Karma Only (to increase the caster level of all of those Persistant spells you cast in the morning), and two rings of spellturning (I think that is what they are called), one of which has Dispel Magic in it, the other with Mort's Disjunction in it (to slow down your DM who will almost certainly send things against you to dispel those massive day-long buffs you have).