Help with casting spells

[bml5099]

Hey guys,

I'm fairly new to both the boards here and D&D itself, so I apologize if there is already a thread about this somewhere throughout the forums.

I've been reading through the PHB for v3.5 like a fiend, and I can't seem to come up with a concrete way that spell casting is supposed to follow. I would assume that when you want to cast a spell, detrimental direct damage for example, that you have to make an attack roll, correct? I can't find exactly what that attack roll would be comprised of.

It seems a little over-powered to me that sorcerers, for example, can just go ahead and say they're casting a damaging spell without having to see if the spell hits them first. I know there's spell failure (concentration), spell resistance and save throws against spells, but I can't seem to come up with a formula that describes the attack roll for spells.

Thanks for the help in advance!
--Brian

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Look in the Magic and Combat sections, and you'll find what you're looking for. In short, though:

• Some rare spells, like Magic Missile, simply home in on their target and do damage.
  
• Some spells you roll a ranged attack against their AC, just like with bows- you have to hit the target well, you have to find a vulnerable spot. And even if you hit, there may not be an effect if the target makes its save.
  
• Some spells you make a melee attack, just like with a weapon or unarmed strike. As above, a save (if any) may minimize the effects of even a successful strike.
  
• Some spells simply have to make contact with the target to affect it, either at range or in melee. These are touch spells, and target only the target's Touch AC, which is usually (but not always) worse.
  
• Area of Effect spells target an area, and damage from them may (or may not) be avoided by making a Reflex save. Since you're aiming at an area, you're generally not going to have to roll an attack vs your target's AC.

 

[Herzog]

As to balance: Keep in mind that spellcasting depends on limited resources.

Once a sorcerer runs out of spells, he's helpless. (his attack bonus sucks, so 'normal' attacks are out of the question), while a fighter can go all day long without having to worry about keeping a reserve.

 

[frankthedm]

I would assume that when you want to cast a spell, detrimental direct damage for example, that you have to make an attack roll, correct?

Often incorrect! Spells routinely do damage without needing to 'hit'. Some autohit spells let you save for half damage, but if you are low on HP and an enemy caster is acting, you are probably already dead.

Caster's turn starts
Casts fireball spell
everyone within a ball 40 feet across burns.

 

[irdeggman]

Pages 134-135 cover how to determine the attack bonus for different types of attacks (melee or ranged).

Page 136 covers "Touch Attacks" - very important for spellcasters since most of the spells that require attack rolls are "touch attacks".

Note that touch attacks can be either melee or ranged so combine the two details to find out how the work.

 

[HoboGod]

As pointed out, it doesn't work always like you exactly as you say, but yeah, it tends to be some out-of-nowhere instant damage/effect that seriously bleeps em up good. However, as Herzog pointed out, the balance comes from resources. Spells per day makes it so the wizard is screwed every time it rolls poorly or the monster rolls well. The only OP wizard is the one that cheats his dice rolls while the DM doesn't. My only argument for when wizards can be vicious is when spells per day become irrelivent when the party pressures a weak DM into setting their own pace and thusly resting after major encounters. I usually like the Unearthed Arcana varient, takes that power away INSTANTLY by creating recharge time rather than spells per day. Makes more sense, too. (Also fixes alot of game breaking combos that abuse time stop).

Another balancing factor to consider, most spellcasters have low HP. In a truly difficult battle, the casters have to chill back a while and try not to be noticed. Think about it, you're facing a pair of Hill Giants and eight Orcs, you win initiative. You're not going to cast fireball and alert your enemies that you're the boom stick, you're probably not even going to hit anything that turn. You'll cast Enlarge Person on the fighter, just to make him a bigger target, then sneak away until you're pretty sure a few Magic Missle can finish them off.

 

[Dandu]

As to balance: Keep in mind that spellcasting depends on limited resources.

Once a sorcerer runs out of spells, he's helpless. (his attack bonus sucks, so 'normal' attacks are out of the question), while a fighter can go all day long without having to worry about keeping a reserve.

Yes, it's not like the fighter's limited by HP or anything.

 

[jefgorbach]

Yes, it's not like the fighter's limited by HP or anything.

Pretty sure he meant keeping a reserve weapon. Spell-casters begin the day with a finite number of single-use "weapons" which are discarded after each use, whether they successfully hit or not -- whereas the fighter's weapons are reusable nigh infinitum barring special circumstances such as being severed/broken.

While you sarcasm regarding HP has merit, such are far easier and faster to regain throughout the day via spells, potions, wands, etc. Conversely, spell-slots are generally only regained via a prolonged rest.

 

[Dandu]

Conversely, spell-slots are generally only regained via a prolonged rest.

Unless you use spells, items, wands...

 

[Dandu]

I usually like the Unearthed Arcana varient, takes that power away INSTANTLY by creating recharge time rather than spells per day. Makes more sense, too. (Also fixes alot of game breaking combos that abuse time stop).

Unearthed Arcana
Metagame Analysis: Recharge Magic

This is a high-powered variant, because spellcasters can cast their staple combat and healing spells all day long. This means that the PCs face almost every encounter fully healed, and rarely do spellcasters have their spell lists significantly depleted. Spellcasters may have some specific-recharge utility and protective spells that they won’t be able to cast before every fight, but they always have access to their highest-level combat and healing spells. And it’s those spells that largely comprise a spellcaster’s contribution toward overcoming a given encounter.