Help with casting spells

[bml5099]

Hmm, all of that definitely helped and I think I seem to understand it now. Thanks for everyone's replies!

Basically, I'm viewing it as this: If the spell description doesn't say to roll an attack roll, the spell just hits. Safe assumption? If there's no text describing an attack roll, just looking at the Range: part of the spell will tell you, I'd assume. If it says it's being cast from a range directly to the target, I'm guessing it would require a ranged attack roll. If it's being fired from a range and just needs to touch the target, it would be a ranged attack roll against their Touch AC. Similarly, if you actually have to touch the target physically as described in the Target: part of the spell description, it would be a melee attack roll against their Touch AC/AC depending upon the Range.

I guess it makes sense, it just seemed to me that some damaging spells in a session I had last night "automatically hitting" wasn't right, but just reading the spell description for each spell in question seems to clear things up as well.

 

[Dandu]

So Charm Person would require an attack roll?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, it's not like the fighter's limited by HP or anything.

While as the spellcasters don't even use the hp system, right?

...This is a thread of a new player asking some basic questions. Can we please NOT devolve it into an argument about the power levels of various classes? Please?

 

[Dandu]

While as the spellcasters don't even use the hp system, right?

My comment was aimed at pointing out fighters are not unlimited, at will attack combat machines; that they have limits just like spellcasters.

Your comment is an attempt to point out that spellcasters have limites... which is really not being disputed at all.

...This is a thread of a new player asking some basic questions.

And recieving some pretty bad answers, such as the Recharge Magic variant being suggested.

 

[bml5099]

Hmm, as far as the Charm Person suggestion goes, I would imagine so after reading the description. Would that be correct? I would think that if you're in combat, as it says there, then you have to make a ranged attack roll against their AC, but if you're outside of combat and are casting this on a target you randomly come across, I would guess it just takes with the chances of it being resisted or saved against. Or would it make more sense to roll against their Flat-Footed AC in that scenario? Blah... lol.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Hmm, as far as the Charm Person suggestion goes, I would imagine so after reading the description. Would that be correct? I would think that if you're in combat, as it says there, then you have to make a ranged attack roll against their AC, but if you're outside of combat and are casting this on a target you randomly come across, I would guess it just takes with the chances of it being resisted or saved against. Or would it make more sense to roll against their Flat-Footed AC in that scenario? Blah... lol.

There is no attack roll. Charm person is a targeted spell. You just choose a target and cast on him/her. Instead of an attack roll, though, the enemy gets a saving throw. If the enemy has Spell Reistance, you'll also have to roll to overcome that. And as for in combat, if you cast Charm Person in combat or while you or your party is otherwise clearly threatening the target, s/he gets a +5 on the saving throw, so using it in combat isn't a good chance of success.

Have you played 4E? In 4E, they just about made everything into an "attack" where the person on offense rolls against a static "defense" number of the target. Instead of Will saves, there's "Will Defense," for example. I think you're getting confused because of that. In previous editions of D&D, there were many attacks, spells, and effects where the attacker rolled nothing, and the defender did the rolling (usually a saving throw). It's mathematically not much different, just approaching things from the opposite direction. Personally...I roll terrible, so I prefer making my foes do the rolling instead.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

It might be easier not to think of spells as "How do I attack with it?" but rather as "How do they defend against it?"

As Danny outlined above, some spells have normal attack rolls against an AC (usually ranged touch or touch spells). Other spells either work or do not work based on the results of a saving throw. A few simply hit every time. The area of effect spells always hit an area, and creatures in the area are affected or not, usually based one saving throw. Many spells are also subject to Spell Resistance, which is a special quality some creatures have that affords them additional defense against spells.

In the case of charm, it allows a Will save. The caster targets the charm on a creature, which makes a Will save. If it fails, it's charmed; if it succeeds, it shrugs off the charm effect. There's no attack roll; the caster simply has to choose a target within range, and the target makes the saving throw.

For each spell, it says in the text whether an attack roll (and what kind!) is needed or not. If no attack roll is mentioned, then it's likely just a saving throw-- though again it will be explicitly stated.

It is a little complicated at first glance, but it will click. There's always someone around here willing to answer your questions, too!

 

[bml5099]

Well that cleared up a lottttt, haha. Thanks a lot, Stream and Orc (and everyone that has contributed!). Between everything I have it all figured out, you made the right call on the 4E, I see what's going on now. I started playing that, and when a friend learned I started playing, he started up a 3.5 session.

 

[TheClone]

There are spells, even damage spells, that require attack roles. Scorching Ray is one of those. But most spells that do not require attack roles require the target to make a save (you could call it defense roll). So for most of the spells there is either an attack roll or a save, but seldom or never both. If the fighter hits goblin over the head with his greatsword he just has to roll an attack. There is no reflex or something for the goblin. Some spells also are subject to spell resistance.

There are some spells with have neither attack roll nor save. Magic Missile is the "always damage dealer", but it is subject to spell resistance. SR isn't present that much, so Magic Missile is the standard attack a arcane caster has, that almost always work. Therefore it is quite liked to find wands of magic missile with caster level 3+, because they are really expensive to buy or craft. That is the wizard's crossbow on higher levels. But for all the good Magic Missile does, it does deal only 1d4+1 damage for every odd level after first and stops at 5d4+5 at level 9. A fireball does 9d6 at that point, but therefore allows a reflex save and is also subject to SR.

The spells cover a great variety of effects in D&D3, but I never found a spell that is really broken. The closest spell to broken I know is scorching burst, because it deals too much damage.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The spells cover a great variety of effects in D&D3, but I never found a spell that is really broken. The closest spell to broken I know is scorching burst, because it deals too much damage.

...Are you trying to bait Dandu?