Help with low-magic variant ranger, cleric, druid

Sugarmouse said:
... actually released a magic-less variant of the Ranger, which I am currently using.

I love that variant.

They used to have a free-to-download PDF with some quick adaptions before the Campaign Book came out. Don't know if it is still floating around, though.

Arkhandus said:
Well, mfrench's version of the ranger is supposed to be more of a low-magic, no-spells ranger, not simply a no-magic ranger. Freedom of Movement, Animal Companion (in 3.5 at least), Trackless Step, Track the Trackless, and Blindsight could hardly be considered mundane.

So I take it the Privateer version is no magic? I've looked around for it a while, and had no luck so far. If you come across it again, let me know, I'd be glad to take a look at it -- but I don't want him to be completely mundane. Since none of his abilities require activation, this ranger is more subtle, but they are still supernatural, and would be kind of creepy to normal folk (you know, following tracks that aren't there, seeing invisible creatures, etc.).

This campaign will have the Fighter, Rogue, and Barbarian as is, the Bard is modified to lose spells, but he'll get bonus feats for bardic music. The monk is gone; the paladin is replaced with a mounted warrior. The wizard will be mostly as he is, the sorcerer is gone. I'm working here on the ranger, and then there will be the variant cleric and variant druid. (So 9 total classes instead of 11) The three casters (wiz, cle, dru) will all have restricted spell lists (or as I would say, "more focused").

The base races have also been modified to tone down magic (gnome is gone, elves & half-elves are replaced by a creature with a fey connection, dwarves & halflings are still there, half-orcs are replaced by a more human but barbaric race).

Two other factors that limit magic in the world: a) most of my NPCs are from NPC classes; and b) most of them remain relatively low level. Unless their profession is shrouded in secrecy (i.e., assassin or wizard cabal), most high level NPCs will be well known. Anyone in a prestige class will have a reputation. But in any case, item creation is limited by these factors, which means that magic items will be a meaningful find and not trading post fodder.


To get back to crunch though, I'll try and get my cleric thoughts together and posted within a day or so.


Mike
 

log in or register to remove this ad

STORMWORLD-RANGER

Many people of StormWorld have tunred their backs on the polluted remnant cities of the old empire. Many are plagued by the twisted magical abberrations that haunt the world. Some do something about it. The Rangers of StormWorld can be found everywhere. From the wild forests and mountains to the ranging oceans and vast wind swept deserts, the Rangers are at home. They battle wild beasts and protect homesteaders or they scour ancient ruins In the wild looking to root out danger.
Adventures: Rangers are commonly found amongst the ranks of adventureres on StormWorld. Rangers often strike out In search of danger across the ruined world seeking to rid the land of the abominations of the Sundering or protect homesteaders against the Infernal forces that plague the world. Among all the adventurers of the world, Rangers are foremost In their sense of wanderlust.
Characteristics: The ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and capable in combat. His skills allow him to survive in the wilderness, to find his prey, and to avoid detection. He also has special knowledge of certain types of creatures.
Alignment: Rangers can be of any alignment. Due to their loner nature and disdain for "so called" civilization, most Rangers tend towards chaotic alignments, though Lawful Rangers are not unheard of. Most Rangers are of good align, seeking to defend their people or the world from the abberations of the Sundering. Some lean towards neutrality seeking the solitude of the wild world and a respite from the deprevations of the great remnant cities. Evil rangers in StormWorld seek to embrace the ferosity of the wild. Using the perverted strength of sundered nature to further their evil schemes.
Religion: Being a diverse group with no real ties, religion among the rangers is, as with all things among their ranks, a personal matter. There are many that worship the creator and some that follow the goddess, becoming strong allies of the Druids. Some never hear the call of the divine and lead lives of soul-searching In the wild
Background: Rangers come from all walks of life. Some are trained as scouts for the armies of various warlords. Others are raised in the wild amongst their people. Some learn their craft at the hands of master Rangers, seeking these heroes out to learn the skills of a life spent wandering the world.
Races: The elves of StormWorld are quite often Rangers, having close ties to the natural world and the creatures that live In the wild. Many say the first human Rangers were trained by the elves. Proving their never ending adaptibility, Humans are also common among the Ranger ranks. Rangers can be found amongst the Kindred as well. Many among the half-breeds (Half-elves and Goblins and too a lesser extent, Half-Ogres) find the wandering life of a Ranger a natrual calling given their usual lives of prejudice and disdain.
Dwarves, coming from extremely strong fanily and clan ties very rarely become Rangers. Those that do are often the result of some falling out with their clans. Though Roma Halflings already lead a life of wanderlust, it is most often in conjunction with their vast extended families, seeking strength in numbers. Still occasionally, a Halfling Ranger can be found.
Among the plane touched races of StormWorld Aasimar, Teifling and Water Genasi make up most of the majority of Rangers. Most of the Goblins of the world lack the skill or intestinal fortitude to become true rangers, but the occasinal Black Ranger is of Goblin stock. These evil rangers quite often spend their time hunting man and elves alike. Some become feared bounty hunters or assasins.
Classes: Rangers can be found most often In the company of the barbarous peoples of the world. They work well with other fighters. Most have a tolerance of the servants of the various churches, seeing good works in each other but often disagreeing on tactics or principle. Being individualists, Rangers tend to being accomodating to just about anyone as long as their lives are no infringed upon.

Code:
Table *–*: The Ranger
		Base	Fort	Ref	Will		
Level	Attack Bonus	Save	Save	Save	Special
	1	+1	+2	+0	+0	Track, Terrain Bonus, 1st favored enemy	
	2	+2	+3	+0	+0	Combat Style	
	3	+3	+3	+1	+1	Animal companion	
	4	+4	+4	+1	+1	Endurance	
	5	+5	+4	+1	+1	2nd favored enemy/Terrain Bonus	
	6	+6/+1	+5	+2	+2	Improved Combat Style
	7	+7/+2	+5	+2	+2	Woodland Stride	
	8	+8/+3	+6	+2	+2	Swift Tracker	
	9	+9/+4	+6	+3	+3	Evasion	
	10	+10/+5	+7	+3	+3	3rd favored enemy/Terrain Bonus	
	11	+11/+6/+1	+7	+3	+3	Combat Style Mastery	
	12	+12/+7/+2	+8	+4	+4	
	13	+13/+8/+3	+8	+4	+4	Camoflage	
	14	+14/+9/+4	+9	+4	+4		
	15	+15/+10/+5	+9	+5	+5	4th favored enemy/Terrain Bonus	
	16	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+5	+5		
	17	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+5	Hide in Plain Sight	
	18	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+6	
	19	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+6		
	20	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+6	5th favored enemy/Terrain Bonus
GAME RULE INFORMATION


Rangers have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Unchanged.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The ranger’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Geography, nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+ Int modifier) 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the ranger.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also, Swim checks suffer a –1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armor and equipment carried.
At first level, the Ranger can choose a mode of combat he favors. This mode of combat is refelcted in the aquistion of two virtual feats. These feats are virtual because they depend on the ranger remaining in light armor and unencumbered. The Ranger can choose any of the following combinations but this is by no means an exhaustive list.
These feats can be used as prerequisties for more advanced feats. Prerequisite minimums apply normally.
Melee specialist- Ambidexterity & Two-weapon fighting
Raned specialist- Point blank shot & Rapid shot
Mounted warrior- Mounted Combat & Ride by attack
Animal Companion: A 3rd-level Ranger gains an animal companion. This animal is one that the Ranger befreinds during game play The animal may not be higher than the Rangers CL -2. Thus a 3rd level Ranger could gain a CR 1 animal. The Ranger may have more than 1 animal companion but the total CR for all animal companions must not be higher than the Rangers CL-2. Animal companions can be natural or magical beasts but cannot be an outsider. Ranger Animal companions can advance In CR as per their description In the MM but may not exceed the normal advancemnt range of that creature type.
Ranger animal companions will be exceptional creatures of that type having at a minimum 80% of max hit points.
The ranger will always be able to comminicate with their companions to some degree regardless of communication barriers. If the creature has no ability to communicate via language, the Ranger and his companion will be able to understand each other empathically at a minimum.
Rangers can gain new animal companions, should one die or If the two agree to part ways. The search for a new companion, under normal circumstances, should not take any longer than D20 -lvl days for a passive search oe - 2 x lvl If actively searching (Ie hunting). This Is an extrodinary ability.
Terrain Bonus: Starting at first level the Ranger gains a Terrain bonus with a specific terrain he has become Intimatly familiar with. He gets a +1 to Wild Empathy, Hide, Move Silently and Survival checks while in his Chosen Terrain due to his familiarity with the surroundings.
At 5th level and at every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select a new terrain, and the bonus associated with every previously selected terrain goes up by +1. For example; a 15th-level ranger will have four known terrains, with bonuses of +4, +3, +2, and +1 respectively. Consult with your DM to add other types of terrain for your ranger on a case-by-case basis.
Track: A ranger gains Track (see PHB) as a bonus feat.
Favored Enemy: At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature (dragons, giants, goblinoids, undead, etc.) as a favored enemy. (A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.) Due to his extensive study of his foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against this type of creature. Likewise, he gets the same bonus to weapon damage rolls against creatures of this type. A ranger also gets the damage bonus with ranged weapons, but only against targets within 30 feet (the ranger cannot strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus doesn’t apply to damage against creatures that are immune to critical hits.
At 5th level and at every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select a new favored enemy, and the bonus associated with every previously selected favored enemy goes up by +1. For example, a 15th-level ranger will have four favored enemies, with bonuses of +4, +3, +2, and +1. Table 3–14: Ranger Favored Enemies lists possible categories for a ranger’s favored enemy.
 

Aus_Snow said:
Well....

Actually, they could. :D

But yes, they're not usually, if that's what you mean.

Not really. Walking through fresh snow without leaving a trail? Only possible with magic or some deliberate effort (i.e. covering the tracks carefully with nearby snow). Following tracks that were magically erased? Only possible with magic. Making a normal animal substantially stronger, tougher, more clever, and such, several multiples moreso than any normal animal could ever become otherwise? Only with magic. Taming a tyrannosaur whose simple mind is governed only by hunger and self-preservation, and that isn't even newly-hatched, making it your pet guard dog and stick-fetcher? Only with magic. Moving through thick mud, deep water, quicksand, 100-foot-high tidal wave, or a supertornado as though it wasn't there, even running full-speed through waist-high water? You'd have to be using magic. Knowing the precise location of a completely invisible enemy from 30 feet away, even when that enemy is above and behind you, flying via magic, in the midst of a raging battlefield? Magic, duh.

If you think this stuff could be done without magic or technology, you're fooling yourself. These abilities could only be supernatural in D&D, unless it's some wierdass magical power that works as an extraordinary ability even in antimagic areas, in which case, I hardly think it would be so simple to discover or master.
 

OK, fair call.

I should've specified "some of them", so that 'all of them' wasn't taken to be implied.

Trackless Step, Track the Trackless and Blindsight - just these ones.

There are numerous accounts of people irl using similar abilities (though these kinds of things are rather hard to quantify, to be fair). It's quite astounding what the human body and mind are capable of, right here, right now - let alone in fictional universes wherein the 'normal rules' might be somewhat different for starters.

Whether the accounts are true or not, who can say. Still, they've not always been chalked up to magic or the like.


Note: it's no big deal to me, whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with the above. It's just something I believe to be so.


And by the way, stating that I am "fooling myself" if I don't see things the way you do, is surely not only unnecessary, but also rather weak in terms of debating. If you do wish to debate the point, I am absolutely fine with that. If you don't, I'm also fine with that. But either way, I think sticking to one or the other would be a good idea.
 

Now for the cleric . . .

All right, I think this one will cause more controversy than the ranger, judging by this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=150020

If you want to sound off on the merit of spontaneous magic vs. choosing your daily spells, I politely request you do it there. I will discuss it there with you if you'd like. (I would still appreciate input here on balance issues, however.) But I am reasonably convinced this cleric should cast his spells spontaneously. Like the sorceror, he will get a number of spells known per level. The spell list will be mostly the cleric list, but I'm still going to whittle it down some, looking to give it some more focus.

This cleric (new title: Charter Priest) derives its power not from a proper deity, but a set of divine "charter marks" which grant him power, especially defense and healing. This church delivered these marks in a time when the old deities disappeared, and this church filled their void by placing wards to defend the weak and fight "unnatural" entities (undead, elementals, fey, lycanthropes, etc.) So, I think the d8, the mid BAB, the good Fort and Will and low Ref are all justified. However, in this setting, undead will not be as prominent: the spells to create them will be gone completely from the divine spell list, and lost for wizards (though it might be re-discovered). This means that Turn Undead is almost worthless. But I still want him to fight off the creatures listed above. So, I am left with a) allowing him to use turning against a longer list of creatures, or b) pulling out something else entirely. One thought was from Comp. Divine, the Spirit Shaman can use a Chastise ability which does straight damage (with a will save) against "spirits", which just means fey, elementals, and incorporeal undead. This is mechanicly simpler (just d6's and a Will save) than Turn Undead.

I'm also interested in limiting spell-casting and adding abilites, but this would deviate greatly from the classic cleric archetype, and I have to consider how comfortable I am with that.

So . . . any suggestions?
 
Last edited:

First off, you're welcome for the advice on the ranger, and I'm glad I could help! As far as the "spontaeous cleric" concept goes, I must say I am strongly against it for a multitude of reasons. The biggest one being, "why?" The PHB description just always made sense to me. Their connection to their diety / whatever gives them auto access to their full spell list. however, it still takes time to sit down and pray for what they need that day. Is it really so unfeasible for a cleric to ask for the power to smite his foes, cure the poison overunning his friend's system, etc...? It just makes perfect sense to me.

Secondly, divine casters, great as they are, they are still needed to be the "utility" caster. Take away a lot of their spells known (which I assume would be the trade-off), and they no longer can handle this function. Why choose to burn one of your 4 or 5 spells known per level on regeneration, when you'll probably almost never use it?

I have my own problem with clerics. Namely, any standard non-human cleric will have no ranks in Knowledge: Religion. Work with me here: your average cleric will probably want to fill wis, con, str, and cha (for turning) before getting to int. So, barring VERY lucky rolls, the cleric's int will be ten at best. Two skills per level. Ok. Order of importance to a cleric? 1. Concentration (He WILL be casting up close and personal), and 2. Spellcraft (critical to any prime spell caster). And K: Religion? It just gets the shaft. Sad really.

So, I made up my own cleric variation that I think works well. Allow me to share:

--Lose heavy armor proficiency.
--Lose spontaneous casting of cure or inflict spells
--Lose bonus spells from domains
--Gain 4+ int skills per level.
--Gain spontaneous casting based upon domains chosen. Thus, you can spont. cast any domain spell you have that is same level or lower than the one you're dropping. To finish this change, any cleric that channels "positive" energy (turns undead) can choose the healing domain. Any cleric that channels "negative" energy (rebukes undead) can take the destruction domain.

Summary: makes the cleric more skill-ful and the player has some variety in picking what spells he can cast spontaneously, at the cost of lost bonus spells. As a fringe benefit, it actully makes the healing domain worth taking! The heavy armor loss was strictly for balance, no flavor-type reason.

If you're interested, I'm also in the process of re-working the cure spells to work off a heal check rather than flat dice, in my pathetic attempt to make heal a useful skill to clerics. Coincidentally, since heal is also used to determine if a body is alive or dead, I think it makes sense to also base the inflict tree off of the skill.

Sorry I couldn't provide you with an actual spontaneous cleric variant.
 

I think the Unearthed Arcana spontaneous Cleric is the most balanced and very easy to use:

- use the spells/day table as PHB Cleric (merging regular and domain slots into one thing), +1 orison per day

- use the spells known table of the PHB Sorcerer, plus all spells from the 2 domains are known automatically

Everything else stays the same.

Spontaneous clerics make just as much sense as preparation-based clerics (they must still pray for spells every day, or however must "behave" accordingly to their faith). You'll also have a small side advantage when allowing supplements, since clerics will not autmatically know tens of noncore spells.
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top