Help with Magic Item Pricing

[blargney the second]

The advantage of 60' over 10' is quite significant - it's not the distance but the coverage that matters. If you think of each square that you can travel to as an option made available by the item, the 60' one is over 20 times more useful in the horizontal plane alone.

I'm sticking with my 30k-40k estimate; 9k is massively undervaluing it.

 

[eamon]

Thanks for all of the good advice, everyone!

What if I calculate it like this?

A 4th level scroll costs 700gp. An 8th level scroll costs 3000gp.

So, if I take 2000gp, divide it by 700gp, then multiply by 3000gp, I'd get a price that's the same factor larger as a Dimension Door scroll compared to a Quickened Dimension Door Scroll (though I realize it's not possible to make a quickened scroll.)

That amount comes to 8571gp, which I'd round to 9000gp.

Does that seem reasonable?

I don't think a formula is going to help you - what's it mean, after all? You're best of judging for yourself what is a reasonable price based simply on other similar-priced items and based on other items with a similar function. That's the trade-off a player will make, after all. Given the vanishing property, the bolt shirt and other examples, you need to ask yourself, is this property better or worse?

Another example: the boots of swift passage (5k) allow teleporting 5/day up to 20 ft. (and need line of sight) as a move action. Note the price increase despite the (significantly) weaker effect. The Aporter Armor property adds 20k to the armor price and allows, 2/day, an 800-ft. non-line of sight dimension door as a standard action...

Maybe something like the boots of desperation are good enough, which are swift activation, function only if you're at or below half-hitpoints, and add +30ft speed and +5dodge bonus to AC vs. AoO's 3/day for 2.8k?

Swift action teleportation is valuable. Teleportation distance is valuable. A player in my campaign has the vanishing property, and it's useful at 8k. The boots you're proposing function potentially multiple times per day, without any requirement to hit first - but on the other hand, they're slotted. Still, the requirement to hit is pretty harsh, and certainly more of a drawback than the slottedness. The increased flexibility of allowing potentially multiple teleports is valuable too (perhaps a factor 1.5 increase?). That is, the proposed swift action boots should be at least twice, but more reasonably 3-4 times as expensive as the vanishing property.

Blargney's estimate is safe. I'd use that. You could let em go for something like 20k, but then they might outshine other loot the player gets of a similar price. Compared to other items of 20k, they're very good for almost everyone in almost all situations. Compare to a Beholder Crown, a Bone Ring, a crystal mask of insight, a scarab of stabilization, gwaeron's belt (21k) and others. Also, consider that the ability you're proposing remains useful even at high levels.

 

[Folly]

Thanks for all of the good advice, everyone!

What if I calculate it like this?

A 4th level scroll costs 700gp. An 8th level scroll costs 3000gp.

So, if I take 2000gp, divide it by 700gp, then multiply by 3000gp, I'd get a price that's the same factor larger as a Dimension Door scroll compared to a Quickened Dimension Door Scroll (though I realize it's not possible to make a quickened scroll.)

That amount comes to 8571gp, which I'd round to 9000gp.

Does that seem reasonable?

This is a tricky item to price since its benefit is highly variant on the build using it. I see three primary uses for this item. First is to escape grapples, universally useful. Second is getting into combat advantageous positions(flanks and such). This is far more beneficial for rogues than other classes. Third would be using them to retain a full action to attack with. This gives greater benefit to characters that have more attacks. With the power of the item being so tied into the design of the character it becomes difficult to price.

I would go with the 9000 price for the moment, and if the item turns out to be too powerful for that price bracket change it for future games.(or future purchases)

 

[Mistwell]

9K sounds right to me.

Focusing on distance probably misses the point. The primary use of swift teleport items is to replicate the effect of having spring attack, without having the feat, a number of times a day. 5x a day you can move, attack, and teleport back. 95% of the time, teleporting back 10' will be just as optimal as teleporting back more than 10'. 60' will almost only be applicable in the wilderness, and during a chase scene.

I think 30K is the same as saying you don't want your player having the item, but you're not up for the discussion of telling them that outright. MIC pretty much established that too many items in the game were overpriced, and 30k would just be a return to those bad old days of overpricing items rather than just banning them and facing the player.

 

[mlund]

The bolt-shirt is also off-slot for its effect. Movement effects are on the boots slot, competing with boots that give you haste or jumping effects. If the bolt shirt's effect were in the leg slot it would cost about 1/2 the list price - or 2,500.

The difference between a Swift Action and a Move Action shouldn't be ignored though.

The Swift Action does not preclude a Full Attack Action nor does it provoke an AoO.

A medium range Swift Action movement effect that takes you from "out of harm's way" to "Surprise! Full Attack!" is much, much more powerful than a Move Action effect at the same distance. If your player wants the distance along with the swift action, he wants an extremely powerful trick, and it will be costly.

If your player just wants extra uses-per-day of the basic 10' Anklet of Translocation effect, just house-rule that he can wear two Anklets (one on each ankle) and he can use either one freely. Heck, if you want to make it a little more expensive that just buying two of the same item, just charge him 3,000 flat for a matched set of "Anklets of Translocation" that are worn as a set and have a total of 4 charges.

- Marty Lund

 

[eamon]

I think 30K is the same as saying you don't want your player having the item, but you're not up for the discussion of telling them that outright. MIC pretty much established that too many items in the game were overpriced, and 30k would just be a return to those bad old days of overpricing items rather than just banning them and facing the player.

In my mind, the distance is extremely important. Anything which potentially allows teleportation which puts you out of reach of opponents is big. 60ft is enough to put you out of reach of some opponents - particularly if you use the terrain smartly, and terrain usage is pretty big in my campaign. 10ft is fairly harmless, so if the player just wants more usages, then sure, work with him. But distances of 60ft start getting extremely interesting to simply gain an extra round vs. an opponent. In some circumstances, that's very attractive.

Another factor is that the items in the MIC are often reasonable cheap because you lose flexibility. Sure, you've a cheap teleportation item; but it's got limited charges per day (and you can hardly go swapping items in combat, if the item can even be used without wearing it for 24hrs), and a limited effect - and often even use a body-slot. For a low-level character, this is hardly a problem, since the item's limitations match the characters; but for a high-level (gold-endowed character) these limits become quite relevant. I think a 60ft. teleport is might just start being attractive to higher level chars, esp. at a swift action cost, which is why the price should be much higher.

Anyhow, I think the real result from this thread is that there already are a bunch of very cheap teleportation items in the MIC, and that I'd point the character towards those. If the character wants more power, he should need more bodyslots, and should ideally have multiple different kinds of items. A little flexibility is good for players ;-).

 

[Deset Gled]

I think 30K is the same as saying you don't want your player having the item, but you're not up for the discussion of telling them that outright. MIC pretty much established that too many items in the game were overpriced, and 30k would just be a return to those bad old days of overpricing items rather than just banning them and facing the player.

Really? 30k is only about as much as a +4 weapon, and I know plenty of characters willing to spring for those. And teleporting is a pretty nice ability to have. 30k may be on the expensive side, but it's hardly equivolent to disallowing the item.

Then again, I believe the MIC is a game altering book that basically redefines wealth level, power level, resource allocation, party roles, and game-world economics. I play in a game that is much closer to core-only, and access to an item that lets any class use Teleport an unlimited number of times (rather than a single use scroll) would easily be worth 40k once the characters get to a certain level. YMMV.

 

[Slaved]

Boots of Far Wandering
Price: 8,000 Gold Pieces
Body Slot: Feet
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint
Activation: - and Swift (Mental)
Weight: -
These light weight boots are as soft as doe skin but harden dramatically when pressure is applied to them. They make the wearer almost seem to glide over the ground instead of walking on it and they allow the wearer to slip between the planes for a moment to travel a ways in an instant.
While wearing the Boots of Far Wandering you gain a bonus to your Land Speed of +5'.
You may also spend a swift action and make a Balance Check. For every 5 points your check exceeds 10 you Teleport yourself, and up to your Light Load worth of Gear, 10 feet. This action does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity nor does the movement. If you fail to get at least 10 on the Balance Check you fall Prone in your current square. Each time you use this ability you get a -2 penalty on this Activation Check for the rest of the day. These penalties stack.
Whenever you would roll a Constitution Check for Forced Marching or Running roll twice and keep the better result.
If you are unable to move you do not gain any benefit from the Boots of Far Wandering. You must wear the boots for at least 24 hours before you can use the Abilities.
If you have the Dodge feat the Land Speed bonus from these boots increases by +5' and you may change your Dodge target once per round as an Immediate Action.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Dodge feat
Cost to Create: 4,000 Gold Pieces, 320 Experience, 8 days


This might be something I would use. Why worry about Charges Per Day when you could make a Character need a specific Skill and have extra uses suffer a penalty?

 

[skelso]

Thanks for all the discussion. I feel like I can see good reasons for both the 9k price and the 30-40k price. Compared to items in the DMG, 30-40k does sound about right. Compared to the MIC, 9k sounds about right. I guess I wish that if their "message" in the MIC is that magic items are overpriced in the DMG, then they would just say so and publish a pdf file for download that lists new prices for all the magic items in the DMG. Doing so would make questions like this a lot easier to answer.

The Boots of Far Wandering that you describe, Slaved, what book do they come from? They sound intriguing.

 

[blargney the second]

Ummm.. if this were priced compared to magic items in the DMG, you'd be looking at a 40k-60k gp magic item.