D&D 5E Help with Mastercrafting "Short" (i.e. Simple) rules for armor and weapons

[DND_Reborn]

I am brainstorming how I want to do rules for mastercrafting weapons and armors for 5E in a setting where actual magic items are rare and unique.

I need weapon rules for:

giving a +1 to attack rolls
granting a +1 to damage rolls
both +1 to attack and damage
making an item out of adamantine
making an item out of mithral

I need armor rules for:

reducing weight and/or STR requirement (could be tied to mithral?)
giving a +1 to AC

And anything else people have suggestions for? Maybe advantage to saves for the items?

I am mostly curious to see what house-rules people might already be using and have had a chance to test?

I know for one thing is that all such items must be custom-made-- no "off the rack or shelf" items here. FWIW, I am not terribly happy with the crafting rules in XGtE, especially since it makes it super easy to craft +1 or +2 weapons (uncommon/rare) and +1 armor (rare).

Thoughts?

 

[dave2008]

First, I like the idea of masterwork armor and weapons - I hope you get some good ideas. However, I want to ask a questions first before I start brainstorming:

Why do you feel the need to provide +1 / +2 to hit and damage?

I ask because I feel magic items are pretty unnecessary in 5e. Other than bypass resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks, I don't think personally thing they are needed. My group is lvl 15 and the best items anyone has is a +1 (very low magic homebrew setting). They just don't need the mechanical benefit in general in 5e. However, need is obviously not the only reason to include something.

So, why do you want to add these benefits to weapons? If we can clarify that I can give some suggestions.

PS Are you looking for weapon properties, or rules for crafting these weapons, or both?

 

[DND_Reborn]

First, I will give you a bit of background on why I was thinking about such things today. Yesterday our monk campaign had a huge battle to face: we thought two separate encounters but they ended up being combined into one! My PC had a elemental gem (earth) as one of few magic items. Honestly, that support in combat probably stopped it from a possible TPK. It was still a hard fight, but we felt much more secure we could win.

It got me thinking about my next game. Having magic items being much less common and more disposable, but also more influential in impacting outcomes of situations.

In other words, the PCs won't see many +1 items that are magical-- they are instead mastercrafted. I probably won't have any +2 weapons, that was just shown because those are "rare" and equal in such a manner to +1 armors....

Why do you feel the need to provide +1 / +2 to hit and damage?

Well, first because such items should have some level of mechanical superiority to normal weapons, and bonuses are the simplest to implement IMO.

Other than bypass resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks, I don't think personally thing they are needed

Very true. There are so many spells that make attacks magical, you don't need magic items for overcoming resistances.

So, why do you want to add these benefits to weapons?

Well, that is what I am asking for: ideas. I mean, such items could have more HP if damaged, advantage on saves, etc. are the easiest ideas. But I am also more asking what people might already be doing.

Are you looking for weapon properties

Some of this...

rules for crafting these weapons

But more of this.

 

[Al2O3]

First, I like the idea of masterwork armor and weapons - I hope you get some good ideas. However, I want to ask a questions first before I start brainstorming:

Why do you feel the need to provide +1 / +2 to hit and damage?

I ask because I feel magic items are pretty unnecessary in 5e. Other than bypass resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks, I don't think personally thing they are needed. My group is lvl 15 and the best items anyone has is a +1 (very low magic homebrew setting). They just don't need the mechanical benefit in general in 5e. However, need is obviously not the only reason to include something.

So, why do you want to add these benefits to weapons? If we can clarify that I can give some suggestions.

PS Are you looking for weapon properties, or rules for crafting these weapons, or both?

I agree with the sentiment here. It sounds interesting, but some clarification is needed.

To the OP:
My first question is, what is masterwork armor and weapons in a worldbuilding sense? In reality I think it is the single work done by a journeyman to prove that they possess the skill to get the title of master and join a guild as a full member. You can also compare it to a master thesis in academia.

I guess you plan for it to be more of "created by a particularly skilled master artisan".

My second question is why you feel the need to include these items in your campaign. My impression is that the primary need for magic weapons is to overcome resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons. If that is the point, then I would add at least 20 gp to the price of a normal weapon. My reasoning is that silvered weapons (at 10 gp extra cost) are already described as a kind of masterwork weapons, and the mechanical effect is to overcome resistance.

+1 weapon as magic weapons or masterwork weapons is just a question of how you present it. Maybe keep it for those few unique items that are actually magic?

For mithral weapons I would go with half weight (which is from the magic item section in the DMG or maybe from 4e).

My third question: why do you want from the crafting rules, or why are you not satisfied with the rules already provided? I would give different suggestions if the problem is that it is too hard for NPC crafters or too easy/cheap for PCs.

EDIT: I missed a reply while writing this on my phone.

EDIT 2: If you expect spells to make attacks magical I have a follow-up question. Magic weapons and armour mostly influence marital classes. Casters get things through class features. So, will you do anything to discourage casters in general? Alternatively, what are the chances that you simply end up with more casters who don't really care about the masterwork stuff?

 

[DND_Reborn]

what is masterwork armor and weapons in a worldbuilding sense?

The highest quality armor and weapons money can buy. These items are of such exceptional craftsmanship that they are suitable for enchantment, but either never were, or attempts to enchant them have failed.

Some items might offer the mechanical benefits I listed in the OP, but are not actually magical--so won't overcome resistance to non-magical attacks.

Other options could be reduced weight, better saves or more HP for the items if attacked, or additional qualties such as a heavy masterwork greatsword might allow the wielder to add 1.5x STR mod to damage or something? Also the idea that longbows with heavier pull are masterwork items. If you want to get your STR mod to damage (we don't use DEX mod to damage), the bow will cost more and only creatures of sufficient strength could string it and use it (a la Odysseus).

The reason for these items depends a lot on what benefits they offer. As I wrote in the OP, this is just brainstorming and a request to see if other already have such ideas in place and to see how they work.

why do you want from the crafting rules, or why are you not satisfied with the rules already provided?

They are pathetic and woefully incomplete?

Seriously, to create a +1 weapon according to XGtE would be (as an uncommon item) only 200 gp, 2 workweeks, and an "encounter" with a CR 4-8 creature for story/formula/materials/etc. I really despise how there are no checks required and you need only have smith tool proficiency OR Arcana, but not both. Given the premise that 5E was designed around magic items not being required, why make it painfully simply to craft them by PCs???

I started working on a pdf supplement for 5E for crafting magical items, etc. and some of this might make its way in there, but for now I am more just looking for what others have done, what simple rules might be applicable to the concepts, and so forth. Hopefully that further clarifies things.

 

[Undrave]

Is it even possible to make easy and simple rules that would actually be interesting? Throwing a random skill roll in there doesn't really make things that much more interesting.

Have you see the AngryGM's 'angry craft' series of articles? It's pretty in depth into his design process...

 

[Ancalagon]

Given the premise that 5E was designed around magic items not being required, why make it painfully simply to craft them by PCs???

+1 weapons are uncommon if I remember correctly. They are uncommon because they are relatively easy to make. More powerful items take a lot bigger investment of gold and especially time, thus they are much rarer.

 

[dave2008]

First, I will give you a bit of background on why I was thinking about such things today. Yesterday our monk campaign had a huge battle to face: we thought two separate encounters but they ended up being combined into one! My PC had a elemental gem (earth) as one of few magic items. Honestly, that support in combat probably stopped it from a possible TPK. It was still a hard fight, but we felt much more secure we could win.

It got me thinking about my next game. Having magic items being much less common and more disposable, but also more influential in impacting outcomes of situations.

In other words, the PCs won't see many +1 items that are magical-- they are instead mastercrafted. I probably won't have any +2 weapons, that was just shown because those are "rare" and equal in such a manner to +1 armors....


Well, first because such items should have some level of mechanical superiority to normal weapons, and bonuses are the simplest to implement IMO.


Very true. There are so many spells that make attacks magical, you don't need magic items for overcoming resistances.


Well, that is what I am asking for: ideas. I mean, such items could have more HP if damaged, advantage on saves, etc. are the easiest ideas. But I am also more asking what people might already be doing.


Some of this...


But more of this.

Thank you for the reply. I have never really used craft rules, but we often play in a low magic setting where magic items and magic are rare and special. Here is the first suggestion off the top of my head:

make masterwork items like magic items with charges. Instead of a free recharge, they have to be reforged or repair or something similar. Thus, whatever the benefit of the "wasterwork" is needs to be maintained. This could be tied into the rarity too. Something like:

Rarity	Craft	Material	Charges	Benefit / Properties	Cost
Uncommon	Masterwork	-- / Mithril	1	+1 to hit / ???	?
Rare	Grandmasterwork / Mitrhril Masterwork	-- / Mithril / Adamant	2	2(W) damage / ???	?
Very Rare	Grandmasterwork Mithril / Masterwork Adamant	Mithril / Adamant	3	3(W) damage / ???	?
Legendary	Grandmasterwork Adamant	Adamant	4	4(W) damage / ???	?

So you get the benefit of the masterwork a number of uses (attacks / hits / whatever) and then it needs to be reforged. Or, perhaps it goes down a step in quality.

So legendary sword would get 4 charges before it downgrades to Very Rare (with the lesser benefit of that rank), which it uses and then downgrades to Rare, etc.

 

[dave2008]

Bare bones crafting rules:

To create masterwork items you just need the knowledge (tool proficiency), money, and time. I am not sure about the money or time aspect, probably dependent on the item. However, minimum proficiency required.

Masterwork: proficiency in relevant tool(s)
Grandmasterwork: expertise in relevant tool(s)

To work rare materials you need to apply your skills:

Mithril:

• DC 15 Skill Check(s) to work
• DC 20 Skill Check(s) for Masterwork
• DC 25 Skill Check(s) for Grandmasterwork

Adamant:

• DC 20 Skill Check(s) to work
• DC 25 Skill Check(s) for Masterwork
• DC 30 Skill Check(s) for Grandmasterwork

 

[DND_Reborn]

Is it even possible to make easy and simple rules that would actually be interesting? Throwing a random skill roll in there doesn't really make things that much more interesting.

Have you see the AngryGM's 'angry craft' series of articles? It's pretty in depth into his design process...

I was thinking of three stages when it comes to magic items: design, fabricate, and finish. That is what I am working on for my current pdf. Checks are involved, as well as time and money and maybe a side quest or two.

No, but if I get time today or tomorrow I'll search for it. Thanks!