Help with my first cleric.

[Jacen]

So like topic says. Need help with my first cleric character. Could only find threads why clerics aren't popular etc and they doesn't help.

I have a character consept and two PrC choosen - both can be fit nicely to character. Two feats is chosen too, anther is due to rolepalying reason and other because a PrC requirement. Starting from 5.th level means that I still have one more feat (one from being human and then from first and third level). He may not be optimal, but that is not what I am trying to do. =)

So level 5 cleric with war and protection domains (cant take sun which would be nice considering the undeads and turning). With consept that I have in mind he would be 17.th level caster when hitting 20. Plus some extra spell from 3 levels of Pious Templar (complete Divine).

Main problem is how to play cleric and what to choose for third feat. He is getting feapon focus (war domain and deitys favored weapon) and weapon specialization (PrC) for deitys favored weapon later (maybe in 4 levels is he manages to get that far), so he is somewhat melee oriented. There are (have been) quite a few undeads already and most likely will be at future too. And let's not forget the fact that campaign is somewhat limited for magic weapons (except low level scrolls&potions).

So what are you recomending? brew potion, scribe scroll, extra turning, improved turining, practised spell caster or what? What to choose and why? What kind of spells to choose for daily usage (D&D 3.5 with complete...books & Scarred Lands material). Is it worth to make spells as potions or scrolls? Wis will be The stat but how would you rank others? I was thinking leadership as 6.th level feat - cohorts do not attend to adventures, so he could be one creating items. But this means waiting quite a few levels for chorot getting level high enough. That would help to avoid weeks downtime too. Crafter cohort is not agreed with DM yet, so might not get that.

Any good common tips? I am all ears.

 

[kenobi65]

Scribe scroll is a good way to have spells available that you might not always prepare (for example, Neutralize Poison may not be needed that often, but when you need it, you *really* need it). But, if your DM doesn't envision much downtime between adventures, you may not be able to really utilize it well. So, that one may need some input from your DM.

Extra Turning and Improved Turning can, indeed, be nice if you're seeing a lot of undead. Unless you have a lot of undead encounters in one day, or your PC's Charisma isn't so hot, Improved Turning might be the better of the two.

How are you getting Weapon Specialization? By the RAW, you need to be a 4th level fighter to qualify for that feat.

As far as stats go, yeah, I'd make Wisdom my best stat, followed by Strength, Charisma, and Constitution. Let Dex and Int go, and get the best armor and shield you can.

 

[Jacen]

Scribe scroll is a good way to have spells available that you might not always prepare (for example, Neutralize Poison may not be needed that often, but when you need it, you *really* need it).

But which one is better scribe scroll or brew potion.
- Both takes one day to make
- Srolls can be used only by divine caster, potion by ayone
- potions can be only 3.th spell level.

There are benefits at both but whiach have most groups found more usefull?

How are you getting Weapon Specialization? By the RAW, you need to be a 4th level fighter to qualify for that feat.

That is the reason for Pious Templar (Complete Divine). It is 3.th level bonus for it. And when combined the fact that Keeper of Ethernal flame (Scarred lands Campaign setting: Ghelspad) can make new divine altar at level 10 they do fit nicely in my opinion.

Let Dex and Int go, and get the best armor and shield you can.

Int is usually hard for me to give up. Cleric gets only 2 per level (+1 one for being human) - that is not much because PrC's do have requirements like knowldge(religion) 8, heal 5 etc. That is one reason why I usually take Jack of All Trade feat from Complete Adventurer. Then I at least do have right to try using skill or reason why I might have known someting if accidentaly letting player knowledge in.

 

[Joker]

Personally I would go for Scribe Scroll if you get a chance to use it fairly often. It is incredibly useful for spells which you aren't likely to memorize a lot (Neutralize Poison, Remove Paralysis etc.). This allows you to focus on buff, healing and attack. Attack in the form of self-buffs. Damage dealing spells are nice (especially searing light vs. undead) but if you have an arcane caster in the party who is geared toward offense your spells will generally be inferior in that respect.

If you're gonna have a cohort that stays back and crafts things he could also be very useful for information gathering if he was a diviner. At lower levels he can identify and Brew Potions and later on he could use his spells to Scry and give you information while you're away.

You already mention the Templar Prc. Which was the other one you wanted? If you're fighting a lot of undead, the Radiant Servant of Pelor is very nice. It's like a Cleric with extra calories.

 

[Jdvn1]

For his character, the undead killing PrC from Libris Mortis is probably better than the Radiant Servant of Pelor. Since he doesn't have the Healing Domain, he can't use any of the abilities the RSoP gives to enhance it.

 

[Shin Okada]

Take Scribe Scroll. It is better than Brew Potion because there is no maximum spell level. And when the time is an issue, you can scribe, say, a single scroll which contains 40 Cure Light Wounds spells in one day (because the price is 1,000 gp) while you can brew only 1 potion/day.

Make scrolls of utility spells, condition curing spells (such as Remove Paralysis or Restoration), and spells without saves. Then use your own slots for casting offensive spells with saves (say, Hold Person, Flame Strike) and spells which your caster level really counts (you can raise your own caster level with some magic items including Prayer Bead Karma).

Regarding melee combats, take Divine feats such as Divine Might or Divine Vigor. Those spells are mainly in Complete Warrior and Complete Divine.

Taking Persistent Spell is another way as you can cast Persistent Divine Favor which gives you +3 Attack/damage for 24 hours a day.

If you want to slay undeads, Disciple of the Sun feat (in Complete Divine) give you the equivalent of greater turning. It costs 2 daily usage of the turn. But unlike the power of sun domain, you can use it multiple times per day.

Taking Extra Turning is not a bad idea as you can use Divine feats (and Disciple of the Sun power) more frequently.

Anyway, Cleric is widely considered to be the strongest core class. And very customizable indeed.

 

[Joker]

For his character, the undead killing PrC from Libris Mortis is probably better than the Radiant Servant of Pelor. Since he doesn't have the Healing Domain, he can't use any of the abilities the RSoP gives to enhance it.

Touché .

 

[kenobi65]

But which one is better scribe scroll or brew potion.
- Both takes one day to make
- Srolls can be used only by divine caster, potion by ayone
- potions can be only 3.th spell level.

- Scrolls are cheaper to make.
- Once you get into 5th level scrolls, they're taking more than one day to scribe, anyway.

Int is usually hard for me to give up. Cleric gets only 2 per level (+1 one for being human) - that is not much because PrC's do have requirements like knowldge(religion) 8, heal 5 etc. That is one reason why I usually take Jack of All Trade feat from Complete Adventurer. Then I at least do have right to try using skill or reason why I might have known someting if accidentaly letting player knowledge in.

You can't have it all. Most cleric builds just aren't going to be "skillful", because (a) clerics don't get many skill points, (b) clerics don't have a lot of class skills, and (c) most clerics don't have high Int scores.

Human does give you those extra skill points, which helps a bit. Focus your skill points on the skills you need to qualify for your PrCs, and go from there.

 

[Henry]

Scribe scroll has its advantages, but so does Brew Potion. While it's true that scrolls cost half of the cost of an equivalent potion, and you have no spell level limit, Potions do not need a caster to use it - do not underestimate this. A non-spell caster will a cure light wounds potion can feed it to anyone to heal them - INCLUDING YOU. It's a great backup to have if the enemy strikes you down before he strikes the fighter down.

 

[Nail]

Although both scribe scroll and brew potions are good feats, a cleric gets far too few to go wasting them on Item Creation Feats.

Instead, get feats that increase your spell casting prowess and flexibility. I'm partial to several that are in CD: Divine Spell Power, Domain Spontaneity, and Divine Metamagic.

• Divine Spell Power allows you to boost your caster level, and with the appropriate magic items and feats can be a sure bet +1 to +4 caster level boost. That's handy for all sorts of buffs you'll cast, as well as boosting damage on the fun spells like Blade Barrier. Best of all, the caster level boost penetrates SR better, and slows down all of those pesky Greater Dispel Magics that try to drain away your buffing magic.
  
• Domain Spontaneity is there to give you the extra flexibility....but its only as good as your domain list (obviously). So concider carefully what sorts of spells you'd like to spontaneously cast. Dimension Door from the travel domain is a good bet, although I see you've already gone for the weaker Protection and War domains. Ah well....I tried!
  
• Divine Metamagic is, of course, Da Bomb. What's not to like? Be sure to quicken that sponanteous Divine Power from your War domain!