D&D (2024) Here's The New 2024 Player's Handbook Wizard Art

 

[Autumnal]

I can accept that it is a different pose than the Wizard's, but... this is getting seriously semantic.

it is? I didn’t realize she’s Jewish. innocent look

 

[FitzTheRuke]

no one was arguing that, they clearly both aim to express power... I said it is not the same pose, it clearly is similar, and that neither is a superheroic pose as not any pose a superhero can assume is also a superheroic pose

Like I said, semantics. You are taking peoples' expression that a heroic pose reminds them of a superhero (which is a pretty reasonable opinion) and breaking it down into tinier and tinier pieces of exacting detail of what-means-what in order to argue with it. It's just unnecessary. I'd think you ought to understand what they mean by "superheroic", even if it doesn't jive with your narrower definition of the trope.

so every pose that is supposed to express power / strength / coolness is therefore a superhero pose?

Obviously not. But does it evoke "superhero" in the minds of a lot of modern people who have been exposed to them in most media for the last two decades? Probably.

Being a Comic Book Guy, my experience and knowledge of Superheroes (and the history and intricacies of the art form) is more nuanced than that. But I can't hold everyone to that sort of standard.

From a "regular" point of view, the Wizard's pose does evoke Superheroics. As does Superman's. As does Henry's, even though THAT is clearly and obviously backwards time-wise.

 

[Chaosmancer]

the point was not that you should have listed more gods and demigods, but that there is mythology without them in the main role

no one was talking about feats… of course a wizard can do crazy things, I did not question her ability to levitate…

And there are stories where Superman isn't the man hero, just a blur in the sky above as some vigilante with powers handles the true underbelly of crime. Or do the words "street level hero" not mean anything to you? I explicitly stated that this was about larger mythological "settings" and that stories of individual lesser heroes were not enough to debunk my point. Yet here you are, making that exact claim.

Sure, the wizard in the golden robes in her high conservatory is all pretty and powerful, that doesn't immediately mean that three miles away there isn't an urchin knifing a guy for his boots. That urchin just isn't the focus of art meant to inspire people into thinking "I want THAT"

sure, I do not think anyone disagreed with that being the intent, it still is a pointless superhero pose for the sake of posing, and that just does not sit well with my take on what I consider D&D to be and fantasy are more broadly

And she isn't posing for the sake of posing. So there is no problem.

I believe I said so, yes

depends on what you consider the goal of the art should be… I am not disagreeing with that being the goal of this picture, but I rather have it tell a story though than to be content with the message being ‘behold how awesome I am’. That does not inspire me, I’d rather have inspirational than aspirational

To tell a story, you need more space. Even the Dwarf Fighter picture isn't telling a story, it is a snapshot of the moment. Sure, you can tell there is a battle going on, but that isn't a story either.

And the purpose of this art is aspirational, I can appreciate wanting inspiration instead, but that is for the other art in the book, not this piece. Especially considering we know where this piece is going in the book, it isn't without context (within the larger message of the book) it is a piece to designate "wizard" and show what they can be. The pictures that are going to be telling stories are going to go elsewhere.

no, none of the changes you mentioned have to lose what I like about the art (they can, but so would low level sci-fi art), it still tells a story, it still is a realistic depiction (as far as powerful wizards can be that…) and it still is not a context free superhero power pose

Something like this maybe

View attachment 356498

The soaking wet, barefoot woman with her clothes clinging appealingly to her skin? Sure her hand is glowing, but she looks like she just barely escaped being washed down the stream, and about to enter into a desperate battle for her survival rather than someone powerful and in control. I mean she is literally on the backfoot.

It isn't bad art, in fact I kind of like the art, that two-headed dragon is sick looking, but it doesn't portray to me "wizardly power and control", she looks like an elven princess who got punked for being huffy towards her more worldly companions and is going to be complaining about being out in the woods without her luxuries.

pretty much any picture has poses, I complained about it being a superhero pose for the sake of posing, with no context / story to it. None of this is true here
you can float and not power pose at the same time

They aren't posing for the sake of posing. You may not have the art for the full story of the moment, but that doesn't mean it is completely absent. Heck, for all you know there will be another piece of art on the opposite page that gives the story you want from this art. Or it will be one of those series of arts that tell a story over the book.

yep, that is how poses work, if you arms or legs are in different positions then it is not the same pose (at most it still is a similar one). I hope I am not telling you something new here

As to ascensions, I see them as passive, something that is happening to you. You are caught in God’s tractor beam, ymmv

My mileage does vary. Ascensions can be passive, but they can also occur when you tap into an energy source larger than your head, or otherwise push yourself beyond mortal limits by unleashing power.

But, from your earlier comments above, I suppose you also disliked all of the 3.5 PHB art for being without context and posing for the sake of posing? I mean, there wasn't a single story amongst the lot of them, by your measure.

 

[Chaosmancer]

so every pose that is supposed to express power / strength / coolness is therefore a superhero pose?

When that is the position that people have taken for this wizard being in a superhero pose.... why not? It is also, as we have demonstrated, just a pose that expresses power and happens to be taken by some superheroes, it doesn't find its origin with superheroes either.

Seems odd that one counts and the other doesn't

 

[MNblockhead]

Heh…I’d argue that anything that generates this much discussion is anything but bland and forgettable…

Has D&D ever had a cohesive art style? I remember early editions being a wonderful mishmash of different artists. Half the time, the artists couldn’t even agree on what an orc or goblin looked like. And with the customizable nature of the game, that seems to be fitting.

One of my favorite things about the Art and Arcana book are the pages showing how different iconic monsters of D&D were represented over time.

 

[Reef]

One of my favorite things about the Art and Arcana book are the pages showing how different iconic monsters of D&D were represented over time.

Absolutely! That book is a treasure.

 

[MNblockhead]

Um, no. They show that she is a good-looking youngish adult, an accomplished magician, who needs to or has chosen to wear half-spectacles. They could be mundane corrective glasses or magical lenses of some sort, we don’t know. But mostly young people who wear glasses aren’t trying to look wizened, and nothing else about this image suggests an interest in doing so.

A young person trying to look wizened would probably go for a furrowed brow, wrinkles and mottling on exposed skin, greyed hair (likely constrained so as to look more homely), and so on.

A younger wizard with the amount of magic power this image suggests would just use illusion magic to make herself look old.

Or perhaps she IS a very old person making herself (or himself) look like a young wizard.

For all the kvetching about verisimilitude in these discussions, I think we all underestimate how completely different things like fashion and appearance would be in a world with magic. We accept the trope of a an old hag looking like a young, attractive women. We accept wizards disguising themselves in all manner of ways. But baulk as much smaller changes. Assuming that a wizard wouldn't use that same magic to create a style that bends assumptions about age, gender, species, culture, etc. is a strange stance to take.

 

[mamba]

Sure, the wizard in the golden robes in her high conservatory is all pretty and powerful, that doesn't immediately mean that three miles away there isn't an urchin knifing a guy for his boots. That urchin just isn't the focus of art meant to inspire people into thinking "I want THAT"

I have no idea what the point of this is, of course anything can go on three miles away, but it is entirely irrelevant to this picture

And she isn't posing for the sake of posing. So there is no problem.

we disagree on that, there is nothing in the picture to indicate that it is not exactly what she is doing...

And the purpose of this art is aspirational, I can appreciate wanting inspiration instead, but that is for the other art in the book, not this piece.

it could be both, but it isn't... I could also have aspirational art that is not superhero art

Heck, for all you know there will be another piece of art on the opposite page that gives the story you want from this art. Or it will be one of those series of arts that tell a story over the book.

for all I know this is not the case, I just cannot rule it out entirely. It's a one page art piece and as far as I can tell I found the entire picture online, so I am not expecting the other half of the picture to appear on the opposite page

When that is the position that people have taken for this wizard being in a superhero pose.... why not? It is also, as we have demonstrated, just a pose that expresses power and happens to be taken by some superheroes, it doesn't find its origin with superheroes either.

Seems odd that one counts and the other doesn't

You find it odd that a pose pretty much every human can assume without any effort whatsoever does not qualify as superheroic?

 

[MNblockhead]

I would also add to this, on the comments of white hair, that she may have greying hair, but it is mostly the effect of the bright light washing through her floating hair.. She may be "brown and pepper" (Not sure what to call salt-and-pepper in brown hair) but that also isn't uncommon for people. My uncle had a head of grey hair by his mid-thirties.

Exactly, or she bleached and dyed it. Or it is a natural hair color for her specific ethnic group. Or it is the result of dealing with some powerful magic. Or she just used magic to change her hair color. Maybe she is just half human, half old-school drow -- just another half-elven wizard. Or maybe she's the instructor at a magic school and one of her apprentices just changed her preferred viridian-green hair to white and that was the last straw that pushed this long-suffering, high-level, wizard instructor to losing her temper and animating all the text books in the classroom to teach the punk that messed with her hair a lesson.

 

[Vaalingrade]

1400 posts in this thread. You all know this is why we can't have nice things, right?

...Wizards?