D&D (2024) Here's The New 2024 Player's Handbook Wizard Art

 

[mamba]

It doesn't "mostly" document. It's purely documentary. It's why they have to be updated as language evolves.

agreed

And given that the dictionary quoted included both definitions in this case, saying that only one is the proper one to use is silly. People DO use it in both ways. If you assume they are using it in only one way, then that's on you. Understanding is a two-way street.

then I am not sure why you brought up how a dictionary does not define usage, since the way it was used was in line with the dictionary…

 

[Hussar]

and yet you were advocating for doing just that to avoid pushback just a few posts ago, or did I misunderstand that?


taste does not have many facts to back it up. I can tell you why to me this is a superhero pose and image, that does not mean you have to agree, this is all subjective and pretending it is not is just weird…

I'm not sure what you are saying I'm advocating. Could you clarify?

But, if you insist on it being a superhero pose WITHOUT telling me why, that's the problem. And, sure, even if you do explain it, doesn't mean that you're right. Or me disagreeing doesn't mean I'm right. But, I did post earlier D&D examples of characters in EXACTLY the same pose, from the 2e era, which predates MCU by a couple of decades. So, claiming that this is MCU superhero pose doesn't really carry much water AFAIC, because you might as well say that West Side story uses superhero poses.

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I mean, that woman in the center there looks as much like our wizard as anyone else. Same pose, hands out at the side, foot raised, moving forward. Heck, even the hair is fairly close.

This is how conversation works. You posit a position. I counter that position with examples, and then we can go back and forth in a constructive manner, discussing the various elements. "BUT BUT BUT!!! STORM!!!MCU!!!!!!SUPERHERO" isn't a discussion. It's just standing on a soap box and telling all and sundry that everyone has to accept your point of view and no other points of view are possible.

 

[Hussar]

Just to jump over to the other side of the fence for a second, I was doing some image searching for the pose and stumbled across this one from Deviantart:


It's literally labeled "Female Superhero Stance". So, maybe there is something there.

But, see, @mamba? That's how conversation works? Instead of simply digging in on a single POV and never, ever deviating, why not try expanding from you position a bit to see why others are saying that they aren't seeing what you're seeing?

 

[mamba]

I'm not sure what you are saying I'm advocating. Could you clarify?

you wrote

But, here's the thing. His criticism was entirely personal and made no broader claims. Which is perfectly fine. No one is going to question this.

which I take as ‘give no reason for why you like / dislike the image, just say that you do’

So I should just say ‘I don’t like it’ instead of ‘I do not like it for being too superheroic’. Not sure how that then does not become entirely worthless, as you wrote

And, sorry, but, an opinion that is just someone saying random stuff without any actual factual basis is largely worthless.

But, if you insist on it being a superhero pose WITHOUT telling me why, that's the problem. And, sure, even if you do explain it, doesn't mean that you're right. Or me disagreeing doesn't mean I'm right.

then what is gained by me saying what makes it superheroic to me, it clearly does not establish a fact you then accept, you are still going to argue that, just like you argue superheroic

But, I did post earlier D&D examples of characters in EXACTLY the same pose, from the 2e era, which predates MCU by a couple of decades.

last I checked a guy on a skateboard is not floating in the air, even if he holds his arms out for balance in a similar way

This is how conversation works. You posit a position. I counter that position with examples, and then we can go back and forth in a constructive manner, discussing the various elements.

if we were trying to establish the facts / truth, I’d agree. Here there is no truth to establish, so all you can say is that you agree / disagree with my taste, neither of which brings us any closer to a truth

"BUT BUT BUT!!! STORM!!!MCU!!!!!!SUPERHERO" isn't a discussion. It's just standing on a soap box and telling all and sundry that everyone has to accept your point of view and no other points of view are possible.

no one has to accept it, other points are possible, that does not mean it is not how I see it, and the exact same is true for whatever your opinion on the image is. There is no one objective answer we all must arrive at, if only we keep on discussing this long enough

 

[mamba]

Just to jump over to the other side of the fence for a second, I was doing some image searching for the pose and stumbled across this one from Deviantart:


It's literally labeled "Female Superhero Stance". So, maybe there is something there.

there clearly is, but that does not mean everyone will agree that this is superhero art, not fantasy art. Heck, I am not even sure everyone agrees that superhero art is a separate thing from fantasy art and not just a subset of it (that is covered by D&D)

 

[Maggan]

Of all the things I've said on ENWorld, I never thought me writing "not my cup of tea" would launch a multipost discussion regardarding critiscism.

 

[Nikosandros]

I would like to post a critique on the issue of criticism, but unfortunately I have misplaced my glasses...

 

[Hussar]

last I checked a guy on a skateboard is not floating in the air, even if he holds his arms out for balance in a similar way

Posted more than that. Posted multiple links to 1e and 2e art showing flying characters in the same pose. And I know you saw it because you discounted the notion of how many different "flying without wings" poses are there?

 

[Hussar]

there clearly is, but that does not mean everyone will agree that this is superhero art, not fantasy art. Heck, I am not even sure everyone agrees that superhero art is a separate thing from fantasy art and not just a subset of it (that is covered by D&D)

By the same token, you position has changed over the course of the thread. It started out with , "lookit that. That's Storm" to "it's too superheroic" to "superhero art might just be a subset of fantasy art".

Oh, and just to be very clear. If you break up my posts to fisk them like that? I don't read your replies. I will not respond to fisking.

 

[mamba]

By the same token, you position has changed over the course of the thread.

not sure why you think it has, if you’d ask me I’d say it has not

It started out with , "lookit that. That's Storm" to "it's too superheroic" to "superhero art might just be a subset of fantasy art".

I never compared her to Storm, I always said it is a superhero pose and the art is stylistically superhero art, not fantasy, to me. I want grittier, more realistic depictions.

I said this is Dr Strange meets Wakanda

I said to me superhero and fantasy are distinct art styles but that I am not sure everyone agrees with even that. That is not a change of my opinion, it is an acknowledgement that it is not universal

Oh, and just to be very clear. If you break up my posts to fisk them like that? I don't read your replies. I will not respond to fisking.

you do you, I do not like having 100 sentence long replies to equally long posts and people then have to sort out what belongs together, I rather break it down to make it clear