D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Krachek]

That is pushing someone into wires unless they caught fire



We would need a bunch more spells and effects for the psion.
The debate occurs because we can’t give those extra effects to a Psion and not other spellcasters.
The debate is really over exclusive spells.
A psion's telekinesis is different from a wizard's telekinesis.

The psion has to be more than just a mental sorcerer and its exclusive spells most be made in a way that restriction from clerics and wizards makes sense.

Even if they make a Psion, I bet you gonna be disapointed.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Even if they make a Psion, I bet you gonna be disapointed.

And that disappointment will be independent of the quality of the Psion itself.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

A psion's telekinesis is different from a wizard's telekinesis.

Outside of removing the Verbal and Somatic components, how is a psion's telekinesis different from a wizard's telekinesis?

The psion has to be more than just a mental sorcerer and its exclusive spells most be made in a way that restriction from clerics and wizards makes sense.

Why does designing more abilities just for the sake of other classes not being able to use them make sense?
It seems rather against the way 5e does things, where that sort of superfluous duplication of effort tends to be avoided.

 

[TwoSix]

So here's the bottom line: being in many prior editions is still not, in itself, enough of a reason to include that class in 5e. It helps to have been in many editions. It adds something to the argument that something should be in 5e. But it's not sufficient, in itself, to say it must be included. Because if it were, you'd see the same sort of passion concerning a Shaman class. Or a Witch class. Or a Wu-Jen class. Or Ninja class. Or even, God forbid, a Jester class. All classes which have appeared in many editions, which are not in 5e, and which don't seem to have much push to be included in 5e now.

So you're going to have to do better than "It's been in three editions" for a Non-core class.

Honestly, you kind of just made the biggest argument FOR the psion. The reason isn't tradition, the reason is that a segment of the player base has a passion for it that you simply don't see with other classes.

I mean, that's the reasons these threads are so big, and why they've been trying to do some kind of psionic system for multiple years and multiple iterations. There's a decent portion of the fan base that gives a crap in a way they don't about the Wu-Jen or the Shaman or the Ninja.

 

[Minigiant]

Outside of removing the Verbal and Somatic components, how is a psion's telekinesis different from a wizard's telekinesis?

It would be able to be used as an attack, either as force or a slam.
It would allow for fine dexterity like mage hand but without the weight restrictions
It would allow for attempt telekinesis of worn or carried objects

It might require multiple spells or powers though.

Why does designing more abilities just for the sake of other classes not being able to use them make sense?
It seems rather against the way 5e does things, where that sort of superfluous duplication of effort tends to be avoided.

Wizards can't heal in D&D for "reasons". Clerics can't sling fireballs or summon fey without a fire or nature god for "reasons".

Having another "supernatural manipulator" who is better with mental based stuff at the expense of other magical stuff is actually an idea that has strong reasoning behind it in world and out.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

It would be able to be used as an attack, either as force or a slam.
It would allow for fine dexterity like mage hand but without the weight restrictions
It would allow for attempt telekinesis of worn or carried objects

It might require multiple spells or powers though.

So it would be better, but with easily ignored drawbacks?

 

[Krachek]

That is pushing someone into wires unless they caught fire



We would need a bunch more spells and effects for the psion.
The debate occurs because we can’t give those extra effects to a Psion and not other spellcasters.
The debate is really over exclusive spells.
A psion's telekinesis is different from a wizard's telekinesis.

The psion has to be more than just a mental sorcerer and its exclusive spells most be made in a way that restriction from clerics and wizards makes sense.

But more precisely can you describe what would be the Psion Telekinesis power. What level, what capacity, duration, etc?

 

[Mistwell]

Honestly, you kind of just made the biggest argument FOR the psion. The reason isn't tradition, the reason is that a segment of the player base has a passion for it that you simply don't see with other classes.

I mean, that's the reasons these threads are so big, and why they've been trying to do some kind of psionic system for multiple years and multiple iterations. There's a decent portion of the fan base that gives a crap in a way they don't about the Wu-Jen or the Shaman or the Ninja.

Yeah I think that's the core of the better argument. It's why I focused earlier on, "Is ENworld's passion for this class representative of a meaningful portion of the player base, or not." I think it's an open question which we debated in one of the other threads.

But more importantly, it's not the theme of the OP for this thread, which was only distinct from the two other Psionic threads because it made the argument "It's been in many editions so that's proof it should be in this edition as well."

 

[Monayuris]

Play a wizard or sorcerer and reskin all of your magic as psionics.
Take spells that match psionic abilities and use them as if you are psionic.

Tweak some of the rules for the sorcerer to add some more psionic feel and character to it. You already have a framework for it. Take the spells in the game and build a new 'set' that better matches the psionic type character.

If you want to be a psychic, just make one on your own. You don't need to wait for a publisher or game designer to provide your content for you.

You don't need official rules to make the game what you want it to be.

 

[Mistwell]

Play a wizard or sorcerer and reskin all of your magic as psionics.
Take spells that match psionic abilities and use them as if you are psionic.

Tweak some of the rules for the sorcerer to add some more psionic feel and character to it. You already have a framework for it. Take the spells in the game and build a new 'set' that better matches the psionic type character.

If you want to be a psychic, just make one on your own. You don't need to wait for a publisher or game designer to provide your content for you.

You don't need official rules to make the game what you want it to be.

All true. But one counter is the Diaglo argument. Diaglo being the most famous (infamous) fan of OD&D as the one true edition of D&D, with all other editions being pale imitations of OD&D. He'd likely argue all you need is a fighting class, a magic using class, a divine using class, and MAYBE (on a good day) a thief-like class. That you can re-skin those into any other class you want.

So sure, you can make any class you want. But having professional RPG designers create and balance and tinker and playtest and provide ongoing support for a class for you has merit as well.