Hero System Vs. Mutants & Masterminds. Which is the better super-hero game?

[scorpionx1]

Fallstorm. Thanks for getting back on topic.

I have only played HERO and love it, however I am finding it hard to get a hold of their books as they are out of stock at the brick and mortar stores. M&M no problem to find though. HERO is soon coming out with a new rule book called Champions Complete. We will see what that is like!

I just grabbed a copy of M&M 3rd and am reading through it now. I can say it is only loosely d20 so far which is a good thing. Powers list and descriptions look similar to HERO but haven't gone through it much. I believe it is less flexible on my first scan through.

HERO combat is not all that bad, maybe a bit long but can be a lot of fun. And comical too(as in funny). I remember a speedster constantly knocking himself out. Knockback is a particularly fun mechanic so much so that I built a character that had double knockback for a few attacks.

Haven't played M&M yet so probably not the best opinion.

 

[Walking Dad]

I think it is a useful and important distinction. On a scale of 1 to 5:

1 Aberrant d20, Heroes Unlimited, some kind of d20 plug-in like Four Colors to Fantasy
2 M&M (point-based, but hard limits), BESM d20 (hard level-based, but with fewer caps)
3 DC Universe (basically point-based, no discrete levels, but with caps and significant soft limits)
4 Hero (no discrete levels, somewhat scaled with significant soft limits), GURPS (no discrete limits, not scaled, but with suggested soft limits)
5 Marvel Super Heroes (no levels of any kind, no scaling, no limits)

Can you explain the difference between "hard" and "soft" limits? Also ignoring limits is much easier than to add them to a system

I also thing it doesn't belong in the same line as BESM d20.

Having a power limit cap is a feature, not a flaw IMHO. It removes "one power wonders" that concentrate building points in one attack and ignore the rest. HERO had (in some incarnations) something like this, if I'm not badly mistaken, too. (At least the FUZION hybrid had them.)

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BTW
Marvel Super Heroes (no levels of any kind, no scaling, no limits, no point buy character generation)
I feel very much limited by playing existing characters with no possibility of customization or a randomly rolled one.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

Can you explain the difference between "hard" and "soft" limits? Also ignoring limits is much easier than to add them to a system

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BTW
Marvel Super Heroes (no levels of any kind, no scaling, no limits, no point buy character generation)
I feel very much limited by playing existing characters with no possibility of customization or a randomly rolled one.

I'd like an answer to this Hard and Soft Limits thing also.

Now... if I was Hulk I'd Hulk Smash you to Planet Hulk for these here fighting words about MHR.

This game gives you the ultimate customization of your character. And there is a random roll character generation on the Margaret Weis website.

I don't know any other game that can let me have as much freedom to make my own character and have it be workable alongside the entire cast of the Marvel Universe.

 

[Corathon]

Which system is better is just a matter of taste. I have played both and prefer HERO.

 

[Walking Dad]

Let's discuss MHR in another thread
But note that I have the random option already in my post.
And for the second question: FASARIP

But to make things short, I just like more classic systems for my superhero RPG. But I like Leverage that uses the Cortex Plus system (Smallville not so much).

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On a different note, BESM d20 has a classless variant included with the revised edition, and as a free download (p 14f):
BESM d20 Revised Optional Rules

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Holy Thread Necromancy Batman!

 

[Eric Tolle]

I have to point out that the PL cap on attack and damage is pretty flexible when feats are taken into account. If I were to do Cyclops in M&M, I'd probably give him Power Attack and All-Out Attack, and dump his defense and Attack for damage. At PL 10 I could easily be tossing out 15 dc energy bursts...at a cost of having a defense of 5.

One thing I like and dislike about M&M is that compared to Hero utility and movement powers are really cheap. For example, if I wanted the flight capability of an F-16 in Hero, it would be damn expensive (around 76 points); the same capability in M&M is maybe 10 points. The disadvantage is it makes low level movement of the "I run a little faster than the average" type hard to do, when twice normal apparel oid only 1 point. Of course M&M is much less oriented towards needing a hex grid, so exaggerated movement rates are less of a problem than in Hero.