D&D (2024) Heroes of the Borderlands

[ECMO3]

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." — Kurt Vonnegut

Yeah well he might have said that, but I just looked in the mirror and I don't have horns or a tail, my skin is not purple, my ears are not pointed and as hard as I have tried I have not been able to react to any insects biting me with a gout of green flames to incinerate them.

So I am calling BS on this.

 

[Azzy]

Yeah well he might have said that, but I just looked in the mirror and as a point of fact I don't have horns or a tail, my skin is not purple, my ears are not pointed and as hard as I have tried I have not been able to react to any insects biting me with a gout of green flames to incinerate them.

So I am calling BS on this.

Very droll.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The way I see it, massacring a bunch of innocent children is immoral. Playing make believe where you tell a story about an Elf who massacres a bunch of innocent children is not inherently immoral.

The thing is I don’t enjoy doing that stuff even in make belief, cause it makes me feel bad.

While the story is not immoral the action in the story still is.

 

[S'mon]

I'm currently playing in the Goodman 5e version. I don't think the KotB setting really works with anything I'd call "Good" alignment PCs. It works ok with basically amoral Law Vs Chaos which is pretty much just tribal warfare, human tribe Vs humanoid tribes. My PC is a Neutral Hold of Stonefist barbarian who doesn't really see that much distinction, and seems to have acquired a purple mohican haired Goblin follower.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The thing is I don’t enjoy doing that stuff even in make belief, cause it makes me feel bad.

While the story is not immoral the action in the story still is.

"I don't like that" is quite different than "It's objectively bad if you pretend to do it". The first is just personal preference.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The way I see it, massacring a bunch of innocent children is immoral. Playing make believe where you tell a story about an Elf who massacres a bunch of innocent children is not inherently immoral.

It does get pretty immoral when that Elf is the hero of the story. When the audience is meant to cheer on the inherently moral Elf and his massacre of the inherently immoral children.

But regardless of morality, I can say that bringing up the slaughter of children is not something a casual audience really expects when they sit down to magical elf fun times, and it shouldn't be something most players need to sit through in order to enjoy an adventure.

"It is forbidden" is not the same as "It's a bad idea." Though, something may be forbidden in certain contexts BECAUSE it is a bad idea in that context (smoking in the explosives factory).

It's a bad idea in this context to have child murder in the game. I'm a little sympathetic to the idea that this makes the Borderlands a very different experience (not sure I buy it myself, but I can imagine how someone could feel that way) and thus it shouldn't be called the same thing. Brands gonna brand. But I'm not sympathetic at all to the idea that the ones asking to exclude the child murder are asking too much.

 

[Oofta]

Given that I have never and will never throw "monster's" children into the mix, and times and opinions have changed over the past half century, I think sometimes morality depends on assumptions and settings. I assume most people wouldn't think twice about killing a swarm of demonic Dretches or Larva. But those are basically the equivalent of fiendish children. People will say that that's okay because these are formed from the souls of evil individuals or born of the chaos and evil of the plane.

But what if my campaign has reincarnation? I have slurgs, an evil race that people who were particularly evil come back as because my campaign doesn't have other planes of existence like Avernus or The Abyss because I only have the prime material. They're born evil and malevolent with no chance of redemption. They are fiends with different fiction and lore. Is it always evil to kill them before they have a chance to harm others?

Like I said, I'll never throw the evil children scenario, even if those children are irredeemable. But I also won't tell people they're wrong if their setting assumption includes always evil monsters. Some people like simple black and white campaigns with clear lines. I don't judge others based on how they play their games, I certainly won't judge a mod written over four decades ago.

 

[Parmandur]

don't judge others based on how they play their games, I certainly won't judge a mod written over four decades ago.

I won't "judge" it, but I will not run it as written in that regard. And if I were releasing a new version for mass market consumption, I would edit that part.

 

[Oofta]

I won't "judge" it, but I will not run it as written in that regard. And if I were releasing a new version for mass market consumption, I would edit that part.

I wouldn't run it that way either, in no small part because I don't like lose-lose scenarios. I play the game to have fun, not to contemplate trolley car problems that have no good solutions. As far as the new scenario, I assume the new module will be inspired by the old but will go out of it's way to reimagine the basic scenario.

 

[Parmandur]

I wouldn't run it that way either, in no small part because I don't like lose-lose scenarios. I play the game to have fun, not to contemplate trolley car problems that have no good solutions. As far as the new scenario, I assume the new module will be inspired by the old but will go out of it's way to reimagine the basic scenario.

Yup, comparing the work they did on Quests from the Infinite Staircase to the originals, I think it's fair to assume this is going to be a major revision.