Heroes Season 1(#20)---4/30/07-'(Five Years Gone)String Theory'

[reanjr]

It occurs to me, to wonder...why didn't Hiro and Peter go back in time and stop Sylar together?

The "meta" reason is that we dont have a show, but I wonder what the in show reason is.

Hiro determined that it would be futile without first saving Claire. He was working on the timelines to try to determine precisely what needed to occur rather than taking brash action and getting himself killed.

Remember that the last time he tried to change the past with the Waitress it didn't work out as well as he hoped. His jump to Peter in the subway is only the second such effort.

 

[SnowRaven]

He can meet and kill Nathan later, and Ted as well--he was using the "cold" version of Ted's power, while Peter was using the "hot" version.

Sylar has cold generation powers, that's separate from any nuclear powers. He froze Molly's (apparent) father.

 

[occam]

The limits of time travel

But this would immediately cause a paradox, as nobody needs to go back now to make Sylar feel special. Sylar must at least become a serial killer for anyone to have a reason to use time travel to stop him from doing something worse.
I think that might be the problem future hiro has encountered with his time travel (maybe that's what causes time rifts he talks about when he asks Peter to "Save the Cheerleader")

That's my theory on the limits of time travel in the show. We'll see if that holds.

I think you've nailed it. Jumping back in time and removing Sylar as a threat before he ever becomes one invalidates a whole series of events, including events that would lead Hiro to jump back in time and remove Sylar as a threat. The paradox prevents this from working.

Same with Charlie. If Hiro had successfully saved her life by jumping back in time, then he would've had no reason to jump back in time to save her. The timeline heals itself to a self-consistent state, and thus prevents action that leads to inconsistency, to paradox.

Hiro's challenge was to find an action he could perform even if the results of that action changed the future. Going back in time to tell Peter to save the cheerleader is still something he can do in a timeline where Peter does indeed save the cheerleader and (hopefully) prevents the explosion. Peter just needs to remind Hiro to do that in five years. Despite the time travel, you still end up with a self-consistent timeline.

Hiro cannot take an action in the past that, in the future, prevents him from taking that same action.

 

[occam]

Here's my take on the timelines:

...

As far as I can tell, the rules of the game are as follows:
Jumping forward moves one to a time in the current universe.
Jumping backward moves one to a time in a different universe, or possibly, spins off a new universe from the old upon arrival.

...

Can anyone find contradictory evidence to these rules?

That all sounds about right to me.

 

[satori01]

My thinking is more in line with Steel Wind on this one. It is quite possible that "Save the Cheerleader" was a bit of red herring..or that the impact of that moment is not what Hiro expected.

The writers of the show have done a good job of factoring in ambiguity. I find it entirely plausible that Mr. Bennett would chose the murder of Jackie at the High School to fake Claire's death and remove her from the view of the Organization and from Sylar. The implication being it is the results from the meeting of Peter and Claire that help spark saving the world, which is not exactly what Hiro intended.

Future Peter had a scar that was running diagonally down his face. This is not consistent with the scar we would imagine would have formed from a battle w/ Sylar. It could be consistent with a Katana slash...it also implies that Future Peter at one point did not have or does not have regenerative powers...which would imply no meeting with Claire.

We also know that there could potentially be 2 explanations for Peter going Nuclear. The first being genetic instability from absorbing powers, the other being Peter getting close to Ted.
In either case, the act of releasing the energy might not be fatal to the source.

As for Future Hiro saying he saw Sylar regenerate, there can be myriad explanations for that. Sylar is the ultimate Deus Machina character, after all we do not know what other supers he has "ate" and what other powers are at his disposal.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

My brain is spinning from the number of ideas here.

So, I'll add my own dizzy thoughts:

Future Hiro's warning to save Claire doesn't have any significant impact in the Future Hiro's timeline - as evidenced by the episode. What it did was change events subtly so that Present Hiro jumped forward five years and met Future Hiro - something that obviously didn't happen in Future Hiro's timeline, or he would have known he was coming. That five year forward leap is the change that allows the future to be changed and not create a paradox, because until Present Hiro jumps back to his own time, it has not changed in Future Hiro's past.

Snow Raven commented that Hiro may be immune to paradox, just like he can remember altered timelines. Hasn't Ando also been able to remember altered timelines? Perhaps Ando has his own power, and that is it, somehow anchoring the timelines for Hiro.

 

[papastebu]

Sylar has cold generation powers, that's separate from any nuclear powers. He froze Molly's (apparent) father.

I haven't seen any evidence of this. I remember seeing Molly's mom stuck up on the wall with forks, but I don't remember seeing her dad frozen. I could have just missed it, though. I do have an eight-year-old that likes to interrupt me while I watch TV.
But what makes me think that Sylar is using a version of Ted's power is that his hands are glowing the exact same way as Ted's did when he, HRG, and Matt escaped the company's holding cells using the "cold"---electro-magnetism, rather than hard radiation---version of Ted's power.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I haven't seen any evidence of this. I remember seeing Molly's mom stuck up on the wall with forks, but I don't remember seeing her dad frozen. I could have just missed it, though. I do have an eight-year-old that likes to interrupt me while I watch TV.
But what makes me think that Sylar is using a version of Ted's power is that his hands are glowing the exact same way as Ted's did when he, HRG, and Matt escaped the company's holding cells using the "cold"---electro-magnetism, rather than hard radiation---version of Ted's power.

I don't know about cold "regeneration" but he defnitely has the cold/freezing ability and used it on Molly Walker's Dad as was referred to above.

As for the fight with Peter in the future - I thought Sylar was using Ted's nuclear power as well initally. On rewatching it - the poster is correct and it is defnitly ice - not Ted's nuclear power. That was the Fire vs. Ice duel of Peter vs. Sylar.

Of course - why it wasn't "Peter freezing time and decapitating a helpless Sylar duel" is unknown...

 

[Vocenoctum]

My brain is spinning from the number of ideas here.

So, I'll add my own dizzy thoughts:

Future Hiro's warning to save Claire doesn't have any significant impact in the Future Hiro's timeline - as evidenced by the episode. What it did was change events subtly so that Present Hiro jumped forward five years and met Future Hiro - something that obviously didn't happen in Future Hiro's timeline, or he would have known he was coming. That five year forward leap is the change that allows the future to be changed and not create a paradox, because until Present Hiro jumps back to his own time, it has not changed in Future Hiro's past.

Without knowing the original timeline, I wonder if Peter would have met Hiro early enough to prevent his capture by Bennet.

Other thing, I'm pretty sure the painting of Peter lying on the ground outside of Homecoming was painted after FutureHiro jumped back. It'd be doing a bit too much work for me to go timeline the paintings to see which were before and which after the Time Alteration.

Snow Raven commented that Hiro may be immune to paradox, just like he can remember altered timelines. Hasn't Ando also been able to remember altered timelines? Perhaps Ando has his own power, and that is it, somehow anchoring the timelines for Hiro.

Ando only remembers what he has experienced, he was dead in the future so didn't remember anything there.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I haven't seen any evidence of this. I remember seeing Molly's mom stuck up on the wall with forks, but I don't remember seeing her dad frozen. I could have just missed it, though. I do have an eight-year-old that likes to interrupt me while I watch TV.

As SnowRaven said, Molly's father was frozen at the table with his head sliced open.

But what makes me think that Sylar is using a version of Ted's power is that his hands are glowing the exact same way as Ted's did when he, HRG, and Matt escaped the company's holding cells using the "cold"---electro-magnetism, rather than hard radiation---version of Ted's power.

I'm not sure an EMP would really do much, certainly not vs being nuked.

We know Peter has Radioactive Power, but heck, it's even possible he met Claires mom and was using actual fire. That'd be fun too.

He should have frozen time and sliced open Sylars head though. Lots more fun.