Heroic Classes

[Irda Ranger]

Has anyone noticed if WotC refers to the eight Core classes as "Heroic Classes"? I hadn't, and if they don't, they should. There is a symmetry as such:

Heroic Class (chosen at 1st level)
Paragon Path (chosen at 11th level)
Epic Destiny (chosen at 21st level)

I have three good reasons for this:
1: This makes it clear that your Class/Path/Destiny "is what you do, beginning at a certain Tier."
2: This way each Tier has its own "group of adventuring professions."
3: This explains why NPC's are "Level 2 Human: Warrior" and not a Human Fighter. It's not that Classes are reserved for PC's (a rather arbitrary distinction), but that they are reserved for Heroes (or, in the case of 1st - 3rd level, Heroes-In-The-Making).

 

[bgaesop]

But they've already said that your class progresses from 1 to 30, and the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are in addition to that.

 

[Rechan]

But they've already said that your class progresses from 1 to 30, and the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are in addition to that.

Well, I believe the paragon paths are more like PrCs. Because we've seen they have 'Cavalier' and 'Arcane Archer' and... other stuff I can't remember.

I am pretty sure, from the indication, that the 'Epic Destinies' are outside of class. That's the 'become a god/etc' stuff, which are sorta class-independent.

 

[Dausuul]

Well, I believe the paragon paths are more like PrCs. Because we've seen they have 'Cavalier' and 'Arcane Archer' and... other stuff I can't remember.

They've said that "some PrCs have made the jump to Paragon Paths." That doesn't mean they work the same way. One thing that has been made quite clear is that you continue to get all your class abilities regardless of which Paragon Path you take. Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are add-ons to your core class, not a substitute for it.

The way I see it is, you get your standard class from 1 through 30. From 11 to 20, you also get a Paragon Path layered over that. Then from 21 to 30, you get an Epic Destiny layered over it.

I'm fairly sure that multiclassing as we know it in 3E is totally, completely and 100% dead. From what we've seen, it looks like 4E multiclassing will take the form of using "training feats" to pick up this or that ability from another class's list. However, if you started out a fighter at 1st level, you'll stay a fighter all the way through 30th.

 

[bgaesop]

Well, I believe the paragon paths are more like PrCs. Because we've seen they have 'Cavalier' and 'Arcane Archer' and... other stuff I can't remember.

From Races and Classes:
"The paragon path and epic destiny thing - PrC's are gone completely. You pick up your paragon path at 11th level, and your epic destiny at 21st level. You get those abilities as you level up in addition to your main class stuff, not instead of."

 

[Rechan]

From Races and Classes:
"The paragon path and epic destiny thing - PrC's are gone completely. You pick up your paragon path at 11th level, and your epic destiny at 21st level. You get those abilities as you level up in addition to your main class stuff, not instead of."

Paragon Paths sound like the NEW, IMPROVED PrCs.

So this implies that the Paragon stuff are just extra-power packages with certain themes around them.

Which makes one wonder how many powers people are going to have.

But, this also means that they're going to need a lot of Paragon paths. I anticipate we'll see a lot of them in splatbooks.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Heh, somehow I have this aftertaste of Midnight in my mouth right now...their heroic paths were an attempt to uncouple characters from magic item dependency, too. Sadly, I never got to play the game, but the concept looked interesting enough for the campaign setting. It might also fit well into a "Points of Light" setting (arguably, Midnight is a "Flickers of Light" setting itself). I wonder how it will fit into the general D&D game flavour. It certainly reminds me of BECMI D&D Immortals as well, at least the Epic Destiny thing. Interesting times to be watching D&D.

 

[Irda Ranger]

But, this also means that they're going to need a lot of Paragon paths. I anticipate we'll see a lot of them in splatbooks.

You ain't kidding. I expect the Paragon Paths will be the new "rules glut." I expect that the PHBII, III, etc. will only present Paths that support the new Heroic Classes presented there. Books like "Complete Arcane 4E" will be chock full of them though.

But they've already said that your class progresses from 1 to 30, and the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies are in addition to that.

Yeah, so? Epic Destinies are layered on top of Paragon Paths; and Paragon Paths are layered on top of Heroic Classes. In layers.

Shrek: Heroes are like onions.
Donkey: They stink?
Shrek: Yes. No.
Donkey: Oh, they make you cry.
Shrek: No.
Donkey: Oh, you leave em out in the sun, they get all brown, start sproutin' little white hairs.
Shrek: NO!! Layers. Onions have layers. Heroes have layers. Onions have layers. You get it? We both have layers.

 

[bgaesop]

Yeah, so? Epic Destinies are layered on top of Paragon Paths; and Paragon Paths are layered on top of Heroic Classes. In layers.

My point was that it's not proper to say you have a "heroic" base class (fighter, rogue, wizard, etc) for 1-10, since you have it 1-30. What you're saying there isn't really accurate either, if I'm reading you correctly. The three "tiers" don't really stack with each other, only PP and ED stack with the core class. So 1-10 it's core class, 11-20 it's core+Paragon Path, 21-30 it's Core+Epic Destiny. You'll keep what you learned in your Paragon Path after level 20, you just won't get any new abilities from it.

 

[kmdietri]

I thought "Heroic Classes" was what they were calling classes now, as in SWSE, to differentiate them from npc classes.