Heroic Classes

[Gloombunny]

While I have no special knowledge, I would be very surprised if that wasn't the case. In SWSE you can progress up to 20th level in Jedi, but there are Jedi Master and Jedi... (Yoda) PrC to take. Since it was also specificially stated that these paths are the 4e equivalent of prestige classes I'm sure that the base class will have options all the way to 30th level on their own.

And it's also been stated that you don't miss out on taking any of the options from your base class when you take a paragon path.

 

[bgaesop]

Really, given that we've said a half dozen times now that you don't miss anything by taking a paragon path the people saying "but what if I don't want to take one, then I'd be underpowered!" sound like a 3.x person saying "but what if I don't want to take any feats, then I'd be underpowered!" Well duh, if you purposefully avoid taking one of the basic parts of your class then yes you'll be underpowered. I imagine there will be at least one PP you can find for your character that has abilities that will appeal to you, and unless you're the least creative person ever/your DM is a major dillhole, you can easily change the flavor to fit your character.

 

[Spatula]

This is a Good Thing because the packages can be balanced against each other at the "package level", which allows you a lot more flexibility at the individual power level.

How do you figure that? In order to be balanced, each path has to be exactly as powerful as the others. That will (proabably) be easier than balancing PrCs, which have a lot more variables (what level can the class be taken at, what did the character give up to enter it, what is the character potentially losing by levelling up in it, etc.), but it doesn't allow for more flexibility in power levels. The power levels should be the same for every one. In essence, flexibility is often the enemy of balance.

Anyway, this is exactly like 2e kits, which were horribly, HORRIBLY unbalanced. Now I don't expect the idea to be executed as poorly this time around - for one thing, the design work is presumably not being farmed out to unsupervised freelancers. But the inevitable power creep of the splat books will ruin it in the end.

 

[Spatula]

Really, given that we've said a half dozen times now that you don't miss anything by taking a paragon path the people saying "but what if I don't want to take one, then I'd be underpowered!" sound like a 3.x person saying "but what if I don't want to take any feats, then I'd be underpowered!" Well duh, if you purposefully avoid taking one of the basic parts of your class then yes you'll be underpowered. I imagine there will be at least one PP you can find for your character that has abilities that will appeal to you, and unless you're the least creative person ever/your DM is a major dillhole, you can easily change the flavor to fit your character.

The point isn't the abilities as such, it's the pigeonholing. People are objecting to the idea that they're forced to be mounted combat specialists (or whatever) when that's not what their character is about. Now naturally that will depend on what kind of paths will be available, and no one here has any hard data on that topic, so it's somewhat pointless to speculate one way or the other.

 

[Gloombunny]

I imagine there will be at least one PP you can find for your character that has abilities that will appeal to you

If that turns out to be the case, then great. I'm not very optimistic about it being so.

 

[bgaesop]

If that turns out to be the case, then great. I'm not very optimistic about it being so.

May I inquire as to why not? It seems to me that it would be really easy to find (at least for my favorite classes, but perhaps I'm biased) something that would make perfect sense as a paragon path that doesn't necessitate changing flavors. An Assassin is just a rogue with more training, an Archmage is just a wizard with a fancy title. Any real differences besides "extra abilities" are really up to the player and DM to come up with.

The point isn't the abilities as such, it's the pigeonholing. People are objecting to the idea that they're forced to be mounted combat specialists (or whatever) when that's not what their character is about. Now naturally that will depend on what kind of paths will be available, and no one here has any hard data on that topic, so it's somewhat pointless to speculate one way or the other.

I understand, I just see no reason to assume that it will be like that without more data. If the only options are, as someone joked earlier, fire rogue/ice rogue or fire fighter/ice fighter then of course I'll be pissed, but if the options are assassin/charismatic charmer/skill monkey or cavalier/wall of iron/weapon master then I don't see the objection.

But like you say, we don't really know and there's no way for us to know, so there's no reason even being on these forums in the first place

 

[Baron Opal]

If that turns out to be the case, then great. I'm not very optimistic about it being so.

Why not?

I imagine that they will be more plentiul than what we had PrC-wise as the mechanics will probably little more than a string of abilities or a feat tree. Also, if there are a significant number of them it will be easier to extrapolate what is a reasonable paragon path and make our own.

I'm leaning fairly heavily on the SWSE as a guide, obviously, but considering the dearth of information it's all I can do.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Why not?

For starters, while I'm sure there will be plenty of them in other books (complete with the same problems the PrCl glut has), there are only 12 in the PHB1. That's not a lot of choice, especially when only three will apply to your class.

 

[bgaesop]

For starters, while I'm sure there will be plenty of them in other books (complete with the same problems the PrCl glut has), there are only 12 in the PHB1. That's not a lot of choice, especially when only three will apply to your class.

How many prestige classes were there in the 3.0 PHB?

 

[Incenjucar]

I really don't see it being that difficult for them to produce paths that are just generic growth of the standard class features. Though they may actively avoid it simply because it defeats the purpose entirely.