Heroic Classes

[JohnSnow]

Also, if Paragon Paths are semi-exclusive, while there will be lots of them in splatbooks, it has one very clear benefit over Prestige Classes. Since each character only gets ONE, they don't have to worry near as much about power bloat and exploiting broken combinations.

There are very few prestige classes that are broken separately, and it would be much easier to keep the system add-ons from breaking it. That's a VERY good thing.

 

[Aloïsius]

It seems like a terrible way to solve it, IMO. Now every class has the problem that there's no reason not to take a Path. If there aren't any paths printed that fit your character concept, you're just screwed.

This is probably the first thing I'm really unhappy to hear about 4e.

I guess there will be very basic paths in the PHB*, so you will find a path that fit with your character concept without more difficulty than you had to find a class to fit with it.
So, it's probably a non-issue, I guess.


(* cavalier, arcane archer to name a few. We will probably have different variants of weapon specialist by example.)

 

[Gloombunny]

Cavalier and arcane archer don't sound very basic to me.

I guess it might be possible to deal with the issue by having one very generic path for each class, but I'm not sure how well that could be executed.

 

[Relique du Madde]

My only problem with the concept of the paths is that there is always a chance there events within a campaign would cause a character's focus to shift. For instance, what would happened to a Mounted Cavalier's abilities once his group decides that they need to become pirates to save their kingdom? Can he retrain to become a Swashbuckler or is he forever stuck being a heavy armor wearing horse riding noble whose abilities are useless at sea?

 

[JohnSnow]

Cavalier and arcane archer don't sound very basic to me.

I guess it might be possible to deal with the issue by having one very generic path for each class, but I'm not sure how well that could be executed.

According to Races and Classes, there are going to be 12 paths in the first Player's Handbook. Each path will appeal to at least two classes, and each class will lead to at least 3 paths. Most of the paths are going to be "quite broad." Epic destinies are different. Also, you'll still be getting stuff from your heroic class, not just from your Paragon Path.

 

[Gloombunny]

According to Races and Classes, there are going to be 12 paths in the first Player's Handbook. Each path will appeal to at least two classes, and each class will lead to at least 3 paths. Most of the paths are going to be "quite broad."

If there are only 12, and cavalier and arcane archer at all representative, then I don't feel reassured in the least.

Also, you'll still be getting stuff from your heroic class, not just from your Paragon Path.

That's the whole reason I'm not liking this. In 3e, if you couldn't find an appropriate PrC for your character, you could just remain in your base class and get its high-level abilities instead, so you didn't totally lose out by not PrCing. (Except for certain spellcaster classes.) In 4e, there's no benefit at all to not having a paragon path, so you have to take one to keep up with the other PCs, even if there aren't any that you actually want.

 

[TwinBahamut]

The whole system sounds like a "class change" mechanic from various videogames. I have always loved such mechanics, so I am looking forward to this.

For those of you who don't know what I am talking about, and to clarify, here are some examples from the videogame Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones.

A basic axe-using soldier is called a Fighter. By building up to level 20, he can class change into a level 1 Warrior, who has all the power of a level 20 Fighter, but more power added onto that, and the ability to use bows. Alternatively, the Fighter can class change into a Hero, who has fewer hitpoints and less attack power than the Warrior, and isn't able to use bows, but is faster and can use swords.

Similarly, a heavily armored infantry unit called the Knight can class change into either a Great Knight (a powerful heavy cavalry unit), or a General (still armored infantry, but has the ability to deflect any attack). Either way, the former Knight (who could only use lances), can now use axes and swords.

Versatile Cavaliers, the basic cavalry unit, can class change into either Great Knights (the same class that Knights can change into), or more mobile Paladins.

A basic Mage (who can only use Anima Magic) can class change into either a Sage or a Mage Knight. Sages can use Light Magic, but Mage Knights are mounted units. Either class change would let the former Mage use healing staves.

I really expect the Paragon Path/Epic Destiny system to be similar. They are different options that add to the basic abilities of a class in different ways, without reducing any of the class's original abilities.

 

[LightPhoenix]

In 4e, there's no benefit at all to not having a paragon path, so you have to take one to keep up with the other PCs, even if there aren't any that you actually want.

Unless there's an option for "no paragon path," in which you are awarded bonus feats, or bonus selections from the base class, to make up for not taking it.

 

[Gloombunny]

Unless there's an option for "no paragon path," in which you are awarded bonus feats, or bonus selections from the base class, to make up for not taking it.

That's more or less what I had in mind when I talked about having a very generic path for each class - something you could default to if the more specific flavor of normal paragon paths isn't working for you.

 

[Baron Opal]

While I have no special knowledge, I would be very surprised if that wasn't the case. In SWSE you can progress up to 20th level in Jedi, but there are Jedi Master and Jedi... (Yoda) PrC to take. Since it was also specificially stated that these paths are the 4e equivalent of prestige classes I'm sure that the base class will have options all the way to 30th level on their own.