Heroic stats

[MarauderX]

I ran a game this last week where the PCs had more heroic stats. The build follows these rules:

Starting ability stats, arranged however the player wishes: 16, 16, 14, 14, 12, 12. After assigning the stats, the player adds +2 to any one stat before applying bonuses (such as skill points). This equals a point-buy build range of 42 to 46.

The character gains +2 to any stat at each level. Bonuses from the new stat are retroactive. For example, a 4th level character raising Con by +2 would gain +1 HP per level, or +4 HP total; a 3rd level rogue raising Int would gain an additional 6 skill points (4 for 1st level, +1 per level). This replaces the +1 ability bonus received every 4 levels.

We played using 4th level characters and max HP. I ran a more deadly game and 3 PCs died during the course of 3 encounters. I also went after ability scores way more than normal, trying to indicate that at further levels the characters might want to bump up even their dump stats.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions?

www.guildofdefiance.wikispaces.com

 

[Nifft]

So, by 4th level, you could have at most a 26 in one stat, before racial adjustments?

-- N

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Why?
Random Speculation:
You guys just like big ability scores? Are the PCs demigods? Are stat boosting magic items still as common as in a typical game?

 

[DungeonMaester]

In my campaign, I use 18,17,16,15,14,13 for starting stats.

That is, because out side of every four levels there is no way to boast ability scores that is not temporary.

I want the players to be heroes, not munskins.

---Rusty

 

[MarauderX]

Why?
Random Speculation:
You guys just like big ability scores? Are the PCs demigods? Are stat boosting magic items still as common as in a typical game?

Read the Maester's reply. Heroes don't come from a collection of magic items, weapons and armor; they come from action.

The PCs can get a stat up to 56 by 20th level if they wanted. A piece of their background will emerge later about their bloodlines to 'explain' why they are far superior to the average person.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Sounds like it could be pretty cool.

Only problem I see might be casters having ridiculous save DCs at higher levels. In the core rules about the highest you can get your casting stat is 36 (18+2 Race+5 Level+6 Enhancement+5 Inherit). So about the max DC they could get is 34 (9 spell level+13 ability modifier, +2 Spell Focus).

With a 56 in your key ability that'd be 10 points higher, granted the caster would have lower abilities else where. Even a player who maxes out a saving throw will only have +37(Base Fort +12, Great Fortitude +2, +23 Con), barring magic items, so he'll fail on anything but a 19 or 20.

At low to mid-levels I think the save DC difference won't be game breaking, it'll probably be hardly noticed. But someone maxing out their cha/wis/int at higher levels will be much more powerful comparativley.

 

[javcs]

True, however, with a 56 in one stat, that caster gets totally shafted against, say, a dedicated grapple-monkey, or a AoO monkey with readied actions.

Stat boosting items don't really do as much as they should.

I'm using a similar variant, except even higher powered.
But everybody else gets it too. Including monsters.

 

[Technik4]

Stat inflation just seems silly to me. I like to think characters with an 18 or 20 strength are pushing the boundaries of non-magical strength for a small or medium character. Once you get into the 30s or 40s (without magic) my suspension of disbelief can't take it anymore. With magic, sure you can get that high. Without...your name better be Kal El or something.

 

[Nifft]

Once you get PCs who are too focused, the game becomes rock-paper-scissors, first initiative wins.

Who's going to make their Will save vs. a guy with a 56 spellcasting stat? Is the PC with the 56 Wis going to make his Reflex save vs. the guy with a 56 Int?

Paladins who are focused on Charisma might. But in general, it seems like you'll end up with a bunch of glass cannons. With regard to skills, it'll exacerbate the usual mid-to-high level problem (focused PC can't ever fail, everyone else can't ever succeed).

Cheers, -- N