Heward's Handy Haversack = free Quickdraw? +Quiver of Ehlonna questions

[Hypersmurf]

Lets see, all 60 arrows, or Bows or Javelins or...

But if you command it to produce all sixty arrows, where do they go? The quiver isn't big enough for 60 arrows. You can only fit them all in in the extra-dimensional space... and you get them out of extra-dimensional space by commanding the quiver to produce them...

OH? Why not? By the same simple illogic you used to state this insanity, there is no mention of a problem with a QofE and a HHH. The Astral Rift you are infering is only applicable to the BoH and the Portable Hole.

Now read the description of Rope Trick.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

OH? Why not?

Putting an extradimensional space into another extradimensional space is not a good thing. Period. You can house rule it if you don't like it.

BTW: Read the description again

I don't need to. If you had been paying attention to this thread, you would have noticed that I even pointed out "items" in a previous post. However, you didn't pay attention. You instead chose to jump the gun with an attitude. I don't appreciate that. Please stop.

Lets see, all 60 arrows, or Bows or Javelins or...

It takes a standard action to switch compartments(If youre being a snooty DM). Once a compartment is selected, you draw from it as a standard quiver.

I'm in agreement with Hypersmurf.

 

[Grundle]

Rav makes his spellcraft check and finds that Ki Ryn casts Irony.

Ie. Good point basically.

Rav

Hold on there my little gnomish buddy!

We are talking about an EXTRADIMENSIONAL space. One could reasonably argue that shaking around the HHH would have absolutely no effect on its contents. After all the contents are not REALLY in the 3-dimensional space occuppied by the HHH, but somewhere else in an extradimensional space.

I'd even go so far as to say that turning the HHH upside down and shaking it will not result in its contents spilling out!

But hey, that's just my personal interpretation of of pseudo-physics of extradimensional spaces!

 

[kreynolds]

I'd even go so far as to say that turning the HHH upside down and shaking it will not result in its contents spilling out!

You don't have to go so far. The rules already do. Sort of. The BoH doesn't spill out its contents when turned upside down, but it will if turned inside out.

 

[Marshall]

Putting an extradimensional space into another extradimensional space is not a good thing. Period. You can house rule it if you don't like it.

Only the BoH and the Portable Hole interact with each other. You can house rule it if you don't like it. IIRC, the line in Rope Trick has been clarified to mean that BoH, Portable Hole, HHH and QofE just dont work inside.

I don't need to. If you had been paying attention to this thread, you would have noticed that I even pointed out "items" in a previous post. However, you didn't pay attention. You instead chose to jump the gun with an attitude. I don't appreciate that. Please stop.

Yes, you did. Then you went on and said it is a standard action to draw each arrow. Which is it?

But if you command it to produce all sixty arrows, where do they go? The quiver isn't big enough for 60 arrows. You can only fit them all in in the extra-dimensional space... and you get them out of extra-dimensional space by commanding the quiver to produce them...

They are "produced." All of them. I'd just rule that they are readily available like any normal quiver.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Only the BoH and the Portable Hole interact with each other. You can house rule it if you don't like it. IIRC, the line in Rope Trick has been clarified to mean that BoH, Portable Hole, HHH and QofE just dont work inside.

From the FAQ:
It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing
nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are
bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes.
Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos.
Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting
the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of
holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same
mishaps when mishandled.

The FAQ does say that spells such as Rope Trick 'pose no danger' to bags of holding etc, but doesn't explain why... which seems to directly contradict the warning at the end of the spell description (which was not changed in errata).

They are "produced." All of them. I'd just rule that they are readily available like any normal quiver.

But where do they go? And why a standard action to switch compartments? They're separate compartments - why not command the Quiver to produce 60 arrows, 5 spears, and seven javelins, since you let it hold more in 'available mode' than the size of the Quiver would allow?

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Only the BoH and the Portable Hole interact with each other. You can house rule it if you don't like it.

I don't need to house rule it. The rules support my standpoint.

Then you went on and said it is a standard action to draw each arrow.

No, I didn't. I said it is a standard action to activate the quiver. How many items you get out of a single activation is immaterial, as I never said a single activation limits you to one item.

Which is it?

The only answer I gave.

 

[0-hr]

We are talking about an EXTRADIMENSIONAL space. One could reasonably argue that shaking around the HHH would have absolutely no effect on its contents. After all the contents are not REALLY in the 3-dimensional space occuppied by the HHH, but somewhere else in an extradimensional space.

We could also "reasonably" assume that the contents of the haversack are being blown about by the astral wind at a speed comperable to that attained during a long range Teleport spell.

The issue is simply wheather you (or your DM) think that a bag this cheap should grant a free Quick Draw for every melee weapon and such out there. If you find that balanced, then good for you - nothing I can do to change your mind.

When the rules are ambiguous or open to interpretation, I try to rule on the side of game balance.

 

[Kannik]

Re: Re: ????

Something 'long and pointy' and 'something long and bendy'.

-laugh- Ok, I admit, I walked (nay, ran) into that one }

Moooooore specifically... 'how long' and pointy, and 'how long and bendy'? Given the phb's illos (which, I know, are not 100% to scale), it appears you could prolly put a halberd into the 'long and bendy' zone (especially since they say spear, and a spear is longer than a comp long bow)... and if you wanted to fill the 'long and pointy' space with 'short and pointy' (ie arrows, though those would need to be moved to the 'questionable value' quiver arrow to be used) do you think you could fit?

Kannik

 

[Marshall]

From the FAQ:
It’s a general rule that you can’t mix items containing
nondimensional or extradimensional spaces (things that are
bigger inside than out) with each other or with portable holes.
Such combinations tend to strain the fabric of the cosmos.
Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting
the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of
holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same
mishaps when mishandled.

The FAQ does say that spells such as Rope Trick 'pose no danger' to bags of holding etc, but doesn't explain why... which seems to directly contradict the warning at the end of the spell description (which was not changed in errata).

OK, so I remember right in one case and wrong in the other. ;-)

But where do they go? And why a standard action to switch compartments? They're separate compartments - why not command the Quiver to produce 60 arrows, 5 spears, and seven javelins, since you let it hold more in 'available mode' than the size of the Quiver would allow?

-Hyp.

I rule it that they dont "go" anywhere. I guess its the difference between a quiver and a sack or backpack, the stuff in the quiver is always accessable.