Hide in Plain Sight / Spring Attack

[mikebr99]

Just that 'Hide in plain sight' is both an Epic use of a skill and a PrC class ability. A regular rogue (or other PrC) can't do this at all till they are 21st. level.

Epic characters and Shadowdancers can do this, but at a -20 DC to their hide skill check.

Hide is a move equiv. action, the class ability of the shadow dancer is to allow them to hide in plain sight, using the hide mechanic... therefore, hide in plain sight is also a move equiv. action.

The Class ability of the shadowdancer is allowing a character to accomplish something before they are epic.

 

[Thanee]

Looks like you're right there, mikebr99. Altho the Hide skill description nowhere states what kind of action it is, the part where it refers to charging obviously indirectly states, that you can use it along with your regular movement (penalties depending on how far you move) and action.

So Hide would be no action at all, but just part of movement (like Tumble).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

mikebr99,

Thanks for the input.

If Hide is a move equivalent action, how can you double move or run and still hide, as per the SRD? What is your source for saying that it is a MEA?

**Edit**

Yes Thanee, that's the conclusion I came to as well. So the shadow dancer that is hidden can get a sneak attack with a spring attack, and then move and hide in plain sight again, all in one round.

 

[Thanee]

Note, however, that the -20 penalty would apply even with Spring Attack and only a total 15' move, and that even a non-Shadowdancer could use this, if the terrain would be suitable to interrupt line of sight sufficiently to hide after the attack.

I now remember a similar tactic actually being written for archery in the Song & Silence supplement.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

Thanee, why the -20 if she only moves half speed?

 

[mikebr99]

I am saying that it is a move equiv. action, and not a free action to stop the... OK, I'm hidden at the start of my round, I move while hidden, attack... then hide again... without using the Spring attack feat.

The Hide skill is a move equiv. that can be done all on it's own, i.e. with no actual distance travelled, Or as part of any or all your movement during your turn.

 

[Thanee]

Because I'd rate performing a spring attack into the charging category. Did you note, that they didn't give a movement used statistic when they wrote charging? No difference between a 10' or a 60' charge, charge is charge.

Hiding while/after spring attacking is just the same thing.

Mikebr99, so Hide is like a MEA that includes a move.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Tobold Hornblower]

OK Mike, we seem to be thinking alike. She isn't really hidden during her attack, though. She comes out of hiding to attack, and then hides again after attacking.

Round 1
Shadow dancer is hidden. Orc is standing 15' away doesn't spot her.

Round 2
Shadow dancer moves 5', springs attacks orc with her ranseur, getting surprise and a sneak attack, moves into a shadow 5' or 10' away, and hides in plain sight.

Orc stands there dumpfounded, wondering what happened to the creature that attacked him.

Round 3
repeat round 2

Thanee, your ruling makes sense and is a reasonable house rule, but by the rules a spring attack is not a charge, so no penalty to hide if only a half move is made, and only a -5 penalty if a full move is made, as I see it.

 

[mikebr99]

Mikebr99, so Hide is like a MEA that includes a move.

Bye
Thanee

Yup... even one with no distance travelled.

 

[mikebr99]

OK Mike, we seem to be thinking alike. She isn't really hidden during her attack, though. She comes out of hiding to attack, and then hides again after attacking.

Round 1
Shadow dancer is hidden. Orc is standing 15' away doesn't spot her.

Round 2
Shadow dancer moves 5', springs attacks orc with her ranseur, getting surprise and a sneak attack, moves into a shadow 5' or 10' away, and hides in plain sight.

Orc stands there dumpfounded, wondering what happened to the creature that attacked him.

Round 3
repeat round 2

Exactly...

Just look out for the guys who know how SD's work...

"Now, I can't see the bugger, but he headed thata way... into the dark corner over there. I know, I FIREBALL THE CORNER!!!"